[X] My Assistant

[i4004]

last time i tried avc (some time ago mpegable and lately many versions of x264) we were not quite there. this time, we may actually be.

http://i4004.net/i4004/?d=avc&s=&r=

encoding times;

-------------hand---maaf---l'or
mpegable --> 53"---2'24"---1'47"
ateme -----> 1'57"---6'22"---5'12"
x264 -------> 42"---1'43"---1'17"
wmv9vcm--> 1'44"---5'30"---4'34"

wmv9vcm settings (for 'hand' sequence) are visible on "wmv9.png". for other clips i just increased the bitrate (ie for 512x384 clips). yes, wmv9 clip is oversized, as clip was too short to stabilise bitrate on wanted value (that goes for most codecs used via vdub in 1pass mode). so i used the bitrate of that oversized file as a target for other encodes. in any case, bitrate control is not a problem for any of these codecs. (but don't expect quality of 100 in wmv9 will yield 350kbit/s when you wanted it, or that 0-20 avc quant. span will respect bitrate you input... alternatively, just use 2pass...hehe...after all, limited quant. encoding is my kind of fun for long time now.)
ateme settings used were mostly defaults, but quantizers were limited to 0-32 for 'hand' sequence, and 0-31 for 'maaf' and 'l'or'. a filename itself tells what inloop settings were used, but i won't really use inloop filter much anyhow, so my clips represent such way of thinking (filtering should be done by filters, not by codecs) 1pass encoding was used for all encoders. mencoder used these options:

"mencoder -ffourcc h264 -ovc x264 -x264encopts bitrate=640:nodeblock:qp_max=30:ip_factor=1.0:qp_step=1:qcomp=1 "
('hand' sequence got qp_max=31, and offcourse, lower target bitrate)

i decided to make available clips that have best quality (wmv9 and ateme), but will upload mpegable and x264 too if there is any interest. (i'm on 56k, so uploading is kinda hard, but if anybody wants it, i'll upload that too.) so if anybody on hydrogen, ars, neuron2 or here wanted these two, they will be uploaded too. (cca. 12mb more)

regarding ateme, i have some really,_really_, good news!
this codec acts more like divx3 or ffvfw when it sees the noise, ie exactly opposite to xvid,divx5 and wmv9; it rather blocks than swims! that is awesome! it means background doesn't follow dido's head like xvid and divx exhibited in this test
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/an.../comparison.htm
and as discussed here
http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.php?act...&t=7952&hl=xvid
also, look at the swimming below girl's left eye in "wmv9_l'or.avi". i despise such artefacts. it is better to have few blocks than this weird lookin shit.

in the end, i must congratulate ateme codec engineers.
i like this thing. i like the encoder too (takes bit getting used to, but not too much) which is rather simple, yet in expert mode i have all options that i need. (quantizers especially.. yummi!)

i still need to try audio codec quality (aac) and if that goes well, i'll start using this tomorrow for real.

regarding the playback, i think the smallest package that should open these files is "Nero Media Player" (see bottom of this page
http://www.nero.com/en/nero-up.php ) but i'm not sure, as i installed NVE which comes with showtime player. (offcourse NVE installs mp4 parser and avc decoder so you can watch these mp4 files from any player)

[mirrored to vdub forum too
http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=8463
reply anywhere you want]

/ivo

edit/ test files url change

This post has been edited by i4004: May 7 2005, 07:04

[dand]

i still need to try audio codec quality (aac) and if that goes well, i'll start using this tomorrow for real.

Aren't they (Ateme) Nero's partners? They probably use Nero's AAC. In that case I don't think the audio quality will be a problem for you.

Have you tried MainConcept's H264?

Daniel

[Gabriel]

Aren't they (Ateme) Nero's partners?

In the consumer software field Ateme codecs are only available in Nero products.

[i4004]

nice to see you 2 guys here, as i saw you discussing audio (esp. mono audio).
i have big problems with sound encoding!

my source is 32khz mono. and recode just can't make it sound good!
tried many things, but no luck!
(i use 32khz mono sound for sitcoms...no need for better sound there: i usually encode that as 48 or 56kbit mono mp3)

on the other hand, nero's aac encoder does a good job on 64kbit/s with a same file (when i rip wav from source .avi and encode it in nero)!

it seems as if ether recode uses different encoder, or a/v interleaving is messing something!


i have also heard a clip (from a friend) that sounds better in mp3 96kbit/s than 80kbit/s aac (48khz stereo that was).

now i'm thinking about swapping some dll's between nero and recode (if that canbe doen at all...)
is nero using "aacenc32.dll"?
can it be that recode is using dshow aac encoder which is different?

mainconcept h264?
"Current version: Preview #2a (Currently runs only on Intel Pentium 4 processors)"

i don't have P4.
i have cel1.3

[kl33per]

Nero and Recode both use the same AAC encoding engine (aacenc32.dll as you pointed out). It's not possible for recode to use anything but that AAC encoder.

[Bonzi]

nice to see you 2 guys here, as i saw you discussing audio (esp. mono audio).
i have big problems with sound encoding!

my source is 32khz mono. and recode just can't make it sound good!
tried many things, but no luck!
(i use 32khz mono sound for sitcoms...no need for better sound there: i usually encode that as 48 or 56kbit mono mp3)

on the other hand, nero's aac encoder does a good job on 64kbit/s with a same file (when i rip wav from source .avi and encode it in nero)!

Hi, i4004. So, if you encode the same file with the same settings in Recode and in Nero there is an audible difference? Could you please post short 30 second clips of the Nero AAC and Recode AAC and also the source wav? I don't think there should be any difference since as kl33per pointed out they both use the same engine. If there is it is a bug.

[i4004]

http://s92912755.onlinehome.us/index.php?d=aac&s=&r=

notice the bitrates used on recode files, and on nero file.
video is here just because recode is video encoder, so i can't load and encode audio alone. that's a reson for quant31 of ffvfw (it seems recode is automatically resizing to stamp size on 64kbit/s video bitrate..heh): this is not a video test.

i believe i also tried using 44khz sound (resamples via avs) but that didn't helped either (how could it?)

i recommend listening clips from my friend chris too ('sick').
notice the distortions in human voices.

you should be able to load pcm avi via ffdshow, and if recode wouldn't load it that way, get this
http://goldnet.zive.net/ffdshow/ffvfw-20030927.exe
(my favourite ffvfw build, btw. )

needless to say, i would like to see a pure 'mono' option in recode, just as mp3 that i use has.


if you need anything else, just let me know. be aware that i'm on dial-up, so i can't upload bigger things.

thanks

/ivo

edit/ i have informed ivan dimkovic; he said he'll inform dshow team about the bug.

edit2/ "audio only,nero aac 48kbit.mp4" added. 48kbit/s audio bitrate is used in "hand_ffvfw quant31,mp3 audio.avi" too.

This post has been edited by i4004: Dec 7 2004, 23:24

[kl33per]

Clearly something is not right. Not sure what is wrong though.

[i4004]

a workaround may be to encode video and audio separately, and then mux via mpeg4ui, as explained here;
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?post...g4UI#post582973

i have tried this method by putting mp2 and mp3 audio with avc video into mp4 container, and it worked ok (nero audio decoder won't do (especially for mp3 sound), so you better use ffdshow's audio decoder to decode these two audio formats). it was 32khz mono audio, as i originally intended for that particular purpose.

as for nero recode alltogether;
i'll be putting it 'ad acta' as it's just too slow.
the quality of video is really nice...if you have the time to encode with it.