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Topic: why so few players with removable memory? (Read 6479 times) previous topic - next topic
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why so few players with removable memory?

and a few players that do provide this feature do not have it well-integrated. Apparently, a player can't read the files directly from the removable card: you have to copy the files to the internal memory first before it can be played.

I think providing removable memory (like SDHC) plus the ability to read directly from that memory is a Good Thing to have. SDHC capacity is quickly increasing, the price per GB goes down. With built-in memory once you exceed the capacity of your player, what do you do? Swap some files? Get the player with higher capacity (and disproportionally higher price tag)? With removable memory you have an option of simply getting another card. May be with removable memory the player will be somewhat thicker vs only the built-in one. But SDHC is tiny, so I think that shouldn't affect the form factor that much.

Any comments?

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #1 –
Why would this business model interest the producers of such items? If you never had to upgrade for more capacity, how would their turnover be maintained?

Not that I disagree with you at all....
lossyWAV -q X -a 4 -s h -A --feedback 2 --limit 15848 --scale 0.5 | FLAC -5 -e -p -b 512 -P=4096 -S- (having set foobar to output 24-bit PCM; scaling by 0.5 gives the ANS headroom to work)

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: porky_pig_jr on
Apparently, a player can't read the files directly from the removable card: you have to copy the files to the internal memory first before it can be played.


I have a SanDisk Sansa e250 v2, which has 2GB of internal memory and an SD expansion slot. I've got an 8GB microSDHC memory card installed in that slot. I do have the player more or less filled up with roughly 10GB of music, so I don't think it works the way you described it.

What I would like to have is the option to address all the memory in the aggregate as one large contiguous block, kind of like RAID 0. If I aim to fill up the player with albums, I have to calculate how many albums I can fit on each "drive" and manually drag them to one or the other.

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Nick.C on
Why would this business model interest the producers of such items? If you never had to upgrade for more capacity, how would their turnover be maintained?


I agree with you that it's all business' interests (especially for Apple), but one has to remember than "mp3" players are the successors of the walkmans.  And you didn't need to buy a new one to play a newbought cassete.


Seems that mp3 player+SHDC slot mostly means SanDisk nowadays. And go see, it's precisely the one trying to sell pre-recorded SHDC's with music.

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #4 –
Quote
' post='590555' date='Sep 28 2008, 15:22']
Seems that mp3 player+SHDC slot mostly means SanDisk nowadays. And go see, it's precisely the one trying to sell pre-recorded SHDC's with music.

That is true for dedicated mp3 players. I have an LG VX8700 mobile phone with a microSDHC slot, and it was easy to copy mp3 files ripped from my CD collection to a memory card. The sound is quite good (IMHO) on the Sennheiser MM50 stereo headset. However, it is an overall less pleasant experience compared to using a dedicated player. Navigation is clunky, and the battery drain is considerable.

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: KevinPacheco on
Quote from: porky_pig_jr on

Apparently, a player can't read the files directly from the removable card: you have to copy the files to the internal memory first before it can be played.


I have a SanDisk Sansa e250 v2, which has 2GB of internal memory and an SD expansion slot. I've got an 8GB microSDHC memory card installed in that slot. I do have the player more or less filled up with roughly 10GB of music, so I don't think it works the way you described it.

What I would like to have is the option to address all the memory in the aggregate as one large contiguous block, kind of like RAID 0. If I aim to fill up the player with albums, I have to calculate how many albums I can fit on each "drive" and manually drag them to one or the other.


Thanks, I didn't realize Sansa can read the memory card directly. I read a few reviews. of a few players, and that was a common complain: memory was not well integrated. Apparently Sansa does read the memory directly, as you've just described.

As to problem of not having the contiguous memory, I can live with that.  By the time I finally get a player, probably 32GB SDHC card will cost peanuts, or may be the higher capacity cards will become available, so the internal memory of a player will become a small change, so to speak.

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #6 –
Almost any mobile phone with DAP capabilities may be considered a player with removable memory, so there are more DAPs with removable memory than you think. And they have replaceable battery, too!

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Martel on
Almost any mobile phone with DAP capabilities may be considered a player with removable memory, so there are more DAPs with removable memory than you think. And they have replaceable battery, too!



A mobile phone that plays music is not a DAP. It is a mobile phone that can reproduce music. It is easy to see people out there playing music through the phone's speaker while they go walking to somewhere. I don't count myself as one of those.

I mean, it is like saying that since there are games for mobile phones, they are replacing the portable gaming consoles. They may have their target audience, but no one in their right mind would say that a mobile phone is a PSP or a nintendo DS.

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #8 –
Quote
' date='Sep 29 2008, 20:12' post='590729']

A mobile phone that plays music is not a DAP. It is a mobile phone that can reproduce music. It is easy to see people out there playing music through the phone's speaker while they go walking to somewhere. I don't count myself as one of those.

I mean, it is like saying that since there are games for mobile phones, they are replacing the portable gaming consoles. They may have their target audience, but no one in their right mind would say that a mobile phone is a PSP or a nintendo DS.


Nokia would beg to differ (NGage). But the DS and PSP have vastly different hardware to a mobile, while adding DAP functionality to a mobile is only a question of software. It's no coincidence that the iPod Touch and the iPhone are so similar.

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: eofor on
Nokia would beg to differ (NGage). But the DS and PSP have vastly different hardware to a mobile, while adding DAP functionality to a mobile is only a question of software. It's no coincidence that the iPod Touch and the iPhone are so similar.


Nokia lately says it's an "internet company". I don't agree that being a music player is just a matter of software. A desktop computer has a software to play music, and that doesn't make it a music player.

The real matter is functionality, and i explain:

When i want to watch the tv, i normally pick the remote, and press the power button, and select the channel i preffer.
If i want to see a DVD, i pick the remote, press the power button, insert the dvd in the player, and press play.

With an mp3 player, i switch it on, navigate the list of songs to pick the one i want, and press play, control the volume and my desire and may simply put it back to my pocket.

A mobile phone adds extra steps, as does a computer or any multi- or general-purpose hardware, tool or otherwhise.

Yes, there are lines of mobile phones that target more the audio-interested people ( like the sony/ericsson walkman series), or more general purpose, like the nGage you mention.
Those, either add more buttons, or more steps.

Then, you talk about iPhone and iPod Touch. Neither of both is either a phone or a music player.
Both are just a "special" type of PDA, one of them with a mobile phone antenna.

And at that point, we are at the "Computer vs dedicated-tool" position.

The only advantage of the whole iPhone/Touch interface is that doesn't pretend to be a computer screen, so it can actually simulate the buttons that an actual player would have.

I really haven't tried it, but what do people think: From the usability point of view, what's better for you, and iPod classic, or an iPod Touch?


Edit: Just for the sake of completeness.... Don't you know that some mobile phones nowadays have graphic chips made by nVidia? and that there's an openGL for mobile phones?

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #10 –
If a phone can do whatever dedicated DAP can do, and is similar in size, battery life, capacity, usability etc., then it's OBVIOUS that it replaces dedicated DAP.

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #11 –
The described "not a music player"-problem is just a matter of clunky GUIs, which in turn is affected by feature-bloat.

It is possible to create a device, which does just a low amount of however highly useful tasks, and design an GUI for it, which ads none or just one additional step, compared to individual dedicated devices. But then again..... corporate interests, you know? Ringtone shit and stuff means extra revenue for the carriers - extra revenue for the carriers means increased promotion by them - increased promotion mean more sales for the carrier which in turn means more sales for the manufacturer.

So in short, blame the popular corrupted business models, not the tech. Its all their fault...... well, and the fault of braindead zombies which obey to buy that crap.

P.S.: Yes, i do own a Motofone - actually, two of them. I'm teh retro!
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #12 –
I have an Insignia Pilot which has an SDHC slot.  It's a Best Buy brand, as much as that scared me off, but it's a decent player (for music, I don't care about video).  Best Buy isn't really selling them anymore, but you might find one on eBay.  It also treats the internal and external memory just as one big block (like the Sansas).  It does have some annoying indexing habits, and the company that makes them for Insignia rebadging hasn't pushed an updated firmware, ever.  Still a great player, and I've managed to work around any issues I have.

I also have a Samsung SYNC (A707) phone with a microSD (HC? don't recall) slot.  It seems to be only halfway shitty as a music player, but the built-in speaker sounds awful.  Headphones would require either the Samsung proprietary connector or a dongle with that connector and a 1/8" jack, so I never explored it as a viable DAP.  It does have external touch buttons dedicated to music playing.  I think the divide between phone and DAP is narrowing rapidly.

why so few players with removable memory?

Reply #13 –
Quote
I agree with you that it's all business' interests (especially for Apple), but one has to remember than "mp3" players are the successors of the walkmans.  And you didn't need to buy a new one to play a newbought cassete.


Yes. You took old cassette out and put the new one. And that is just what you should do when you buy a new album  delete old one, put new one.
You see? there is nothing wrong with the walkman philosophy in mp3 players, it's just your way of thinking that doesn't go along the corporate lines
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