Next Gen MP3 HD Players

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Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #50 – 2003-09-06 16:05:18

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The difference between the two formats in this test is statistically insignificant, and as a non-proprietry format, I'd have to say Ogg is my choice here.

I'm happy for you both, but what has that got to do with the topic ?

Forget it, this threads F.U.B.A.R.

Does anybody bother to read the rules at all now ?

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #51 – 2003-09-06 17:08:22

I read a thread on Riovolution.com in which a guy claimed to have called up Rio and learned of a "mid september" release date for the Karma 20. Unfortunately, there is no ETA at the moment for the Karma 40.

thesparq

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #52 – 2003-09-06 17:11:32

Being the owner of a 128mb MuVo, and recently a Philips EXP mp3 cd player because I got fed up with the limited capacity of the MuVo, the new 1.5gb MuVo seems ideal.

I don't need my entire cd collection with me all the time, and I don't want to pay £300+ for a player; that's way to expensive for what is a fairly trivial thing.

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/muvo_2_..._15/welcome.asp

At the moment though it seems it not on sale yet.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #53 – 2003-09-06 18:16:58

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"mid september" release date for the Karma 20

Thanks, going to try and find out more about it. Pity theres not much in the way of reviews.

Heres an "impromptu" review of the Phillips HDD100 from the DAPreview guy, not very flattering.

Here

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #54 – 2003-09-06 19:10:57

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I'm happy for you both, but what has that got to do with the topic ?

Forget it, this threads F.U.B.A.R.

Does anybody bother to read the rules at all now ?

Hey i read the Forum Rules

Quote

So Back to the Thread

I Hope i find a Player that Support WMA9 Pro.
Maybe you answer me here or in the Topic i open for a few Minutes :

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/showtopic/12981

You Dont answer me all u say is :

Quote

ZZZzzzzzzz

And now back to the Topic maybe a Answer ?

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #55 – 2003-09-06 20:19:34

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WMA beats Lame,Blade,and OGG
ZZZzzzzzzz

Anyway, I am on the verge of buying the iRiver iHP-100, iRiver Korea advertised a 15gb version but it's a special edition and only available to Korea .
So it looks like the 10gb as I doubt the 20gb version will be released this year.

I have been looking into this Rio Karma after you guys mentioned it and it does look quite good, does anybody know when it's going to be available to buy or try out. ?

It was supposed to ship a couple days ago from Amazon.com, but now that has changed...I don't know exactly when mine will ship now, but it will be fairly soon.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #56 – 2003-09-08 23:58:08

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"mid september" release date for the Karma 20

Thanks, going to try and find out more about it. Pity theres not much in the way of reviews.

Heres an "impromptu" review of the Phillips HDD100 from the DAPreview guy, not very flattering.

Here

Hi there.... nice to see you're all keeping busy.

That's my "not-so-offical"-mini-mini-mini-review you mentioned there. Otherwise, I'm 50% of DAPreview (European department). Nice to meet you all. I won't say anything about WMA, don't worry... I'll leave it to the experts

Philips HDD100 is passe already, just try to forget about the unit. The thought behind it was ok, the execution terribly bad. Well, maybe you've read the whole stroy and there will be the head-to-head review later on this month, but I guess Philips is running behind even though they started in front.

Well, in other news: the "new" iPod, 20 and 40 GB for same prices as 15 and 30 GB used to be. Bit tricky move, this one from Apple, but it shows that 1.8" HDD are becoming more and more available - or: cheaper - nowadays. There was a rumour today that iRiver would jump into it immediately and that they will sell their 20 GB version of iHP-100 for only 449 Euro (well, that's the price of a 20 GB iPod in Europe now, so this seems like a pretty good deal - although I can't get this story confirmed just yet).

Furthermore, there is this explosion of 1.5 GB units, most recently Philips announced the HDD060, Mpio will launch HD-200 soon enough, Nitrus is already there - as is RD2760, iGP-100 from iRiver won't be too far away either and there was this strange banana-player from Mpman, H150, that will play Ogg Vorbis in the near future.

Stories enough. I just wanted to drop by and say "Hi, great job on keeping each other updated (at least... ehr... well... you were trying to, right? )". Any questions about HDD-based stuff? Just let me know !

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #57 – 2003-09-09 01:44:07

Thanks DAPreview!!!!

Great update.

Any news on the Rio Karma? Have you had your hands on one yet? Very interesting that Apple is quickly increasing the HD capacity while maintaining their price as competition increases. A 40GB iPod for $500? Very cool.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #58 – 2003-09-09 02:02:41

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A 40GB iPod for $500? Very cool.

An article I found (off /. origionally) confirming the new line of iPods: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/showtopic/13055

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #59 – 2003-09-09 09:02:43

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Thanks DAPreview!!!!

Great update.

Any news on the Rio Karma? Have you had your hands on one yet? Very interesting that Apple is quickly increasing the HD capacity while maintaining their price as competition increases. A 40GB iPod for $500? Very cool.

Well, Karma is indeed the thing-to-beat... at least, up til one day ago, before Apple decided to release their new 20 GB/40GB range, which makes the Karma look like it's a face-to-face competitor for the iPod... we all know that the Karma will be more than "just another competitor"... but does your neighbour or your little nephew know it too? I guess not, so they'll prefer to buy an iPod instead, ignoring all the audiophile-candy there is to admire on Karma. A shame, good marketing from Apple (although they've upset quite some "old" new iPod-buyers with their latest actions), but I don't think Karma's price will drop because of this very soon.

I haven't had the Karma in my hands, unfortunately... Since I'm living in Europe, there's not an awful lot of change that they will ship it to my place anyway, so I guess it's up to my American colleague to take care of that. I have seen pictures and movies... and must conclude that I NEED THIS PLAYER BAD!

Well, upcoming on DAPreview are extensive galleries of Rio Audio Nitrus + review of it later on. X-Clef is coming my way too, as well is another 2.5" HDD unit. The iHP-100 vs HDD100 won't take me forever either, although my estimate is that this will be the review that has to be refined until it's late September.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #60 – 2003-09-09 16:35:09

Amazon just switched the Karma's status to "Ships every 2 to 3 days", so it shouldn't be long before I receive mine. As soon as I heard that Apple was releasing 20 and 40GB versions of the iPod, I knew this HAD to be to directly compete with the Karma in the eyes of the average consumer. Before they made this anouncement, I think within each price category, the Karma had the iPod beat, money per GB. Now, I don't think this is the case at all. Keep in mind that neither the new iPod capacities, nor the Rio Karma has been released yet; and we don't know when these new iPods will be out in stores, so the 20 GB Karma may just beat the new iPods to the shelves.

Its going to be tough though. The average consumer will first look at how cool the player looks physically. I have seen many a time where a consumer will buy a flash type mp3 player simply because it is small and looks cool, not even knowing how much music it will hold. But next, yes, he or she will look at the capacity of the player, i.e. how much music the player will hold. In both senses, I think the Karma has these categories covered. They look cool and they hold a lot of music. Still, I see no advantage here over the iPod looking through the eyes of the Best Buy shopper.

The issue ahead for the Karma is the following. The average consumer won't care whether it will play Ogg Vorbis and FLAC. That may be the problem the Karma runs into, there is no BRAND NEW feature that the consumer can grasp, and therefore they will just default to buying the iPod, since they are so popular. The Ethernet feature is great stuff for the geek, but what will be the everyday application of this feature for the consumer? In this sense, it is sad that we finally see a product that does exactly what the audio community has been asking for, but in turn, none of this is relevant to actually selling it to the masses. You see, I DO think that the new Rio line with its Ogg Vorbis and FLAC support and ethernet is the only way to go, but I'm coming from a techie and audiophile standpoint, and I am not the one that needs to be convinced. There has got to be a focus on informing the average consumer about the uniqueness and applicability of these new features for this product to shine in the public's eyes.
You see, this is what is so unique about the iPod, it has infiltrated into pop culture and into the average consumer market, something that is most difficult for electronic gadgets of this type to do. When placed side by side in front of the consumer, if the price is equal, I see many people still going for the iPod. Each product has its own "personality" of sorts, and some people might like the Karma better for its looks. It could be that the majority of this market for these type of devices IS guys like us that know what to look for, seek out, and spend this kind of money to purchase a hard drive digital audio player. In that sense, the Karma will do fine. But for it to really succeed, it is going to have to transcend boundaries into the mainstream like the iPod has done for it to become a big success.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #61 – 2003-09-09 17:59:19

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[...]In that sense, the Karma will do fine. But for it to really succeed, it is going to have to transcend boundaries into the mainstream like the iPod has done for it to become a big success.

True, true. I've had more questions about the inferior Philips HDD100 than remarks about Karma... just because the HDD100 has got the looks, whereas Karma is somewhat "plasticy".

Apple can't be denied excellent designing-jobs (well, I liked the first two revisions a whole lot better than the current revision, when judged on appearance solely - but never mind that) and of course they were the ones who got the ball rolling in the first place. They've had some sort of monoploy-position throughout the past years, only Zen could inflict some minor damage.

Luckily, people are getting a bit more critical on what to buy these days (well, at least the ppl who contact me for advice). Apple has made their original iPod smaller, thinner and more lightweight... but apart from that, real improvements weren't made. No new features, while they could have add a FM-tuner for example... but I guess they were confident that the iPod would still sell to the masses... which it did!

However. Competition is gaining ground, no doubt about it. Most of iRiver iHP-100/HDD100/Karma/etc. buyers are looking for more than just a machine that plays mp3. Call them audiophiles or feautrejunkies, but they are growing in numbers steadily. The current DAP's development race is very interesting to take a look at. Prices are going down very fast, features are becoming more significant with every new unit. Apple still has the lead - easily, enough masses that think 40 GB of music oughta be enough for everyone - but I'm glad some less experienced people are at least taking a look at what others have got to offer.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #62 – 2003-09-10 01:18:54

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we don't know when these new iPods will be out in stores, so the 20 GB Karma may just beat the new iPods to the shelves.

Nope. I was at Best Buy today picking up the new Iron Maiden CD and hoping that just MAYBE they had the Karma in. They did not. But there were 40 GB iPods to be had.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #63 – 2003-09-10 02:24:55

I'm concerned that it looks like the Rio Karma comes with no case! $400 or $500 for a player? I want some protection for it!

Anyone know if there is a case with the Karma?

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #64 – 2003-09-10 03:24:22

Nope, I don't think it comes with one. I wondered myself why they didn't make one for it...they might come out with one separately like they have done with other players though. We might see 3rd party cases for them.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #65 – 2003-09-25 17:39:42

Hey guys, wake up... New DAPs are all over the place! The iRiver iHP-120 (20 GB edition of the iHP-100) will be quite cheapish compared to its' predecessor. The new Dell jukebox has already been announced and shown as well.

Furthermore, Samsung is busy chatting with Napster, and will release the YP-910 with Napster 2.0 music service support in the future.

Finally, I did a review on the Philips HDD100 vs iRiver iHP-100:

Enjoy!

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #66 – 2003-09-29 01:20:00

excellent review. Any chance that you will be getting your hands on the ihp120 anytime soon. APparantly the firmware that supports Ogg fixes the 1.5 second pause between songs.
Also apparantly the ihp120 has slightly different hardware inside to the ihp100. Because it can record from external mic. Apparantly the ihp 100 can't even with firmware update. Sounds a bit fishy to me... but in the iriver community forum they were saying that the ihp120 has slightly different hardware inside... with regard to the recording functionality anyway? Any info?
Also DAPREVIEW... any chance that that mystery 2.5" hard disk player you are going to be reviewing will be the zen Xtra

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #67 – 2003-09-30 01:46:29

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excellent review. Any chance that you will be getting your hands on the ihp120 anytime soon. APparantly the firmware that supports Ogg fixes the 1.5 second pause between songs.
Also apparantly the ihp120 has slightly different hardware inside to the ihp100. Because it can record from external mic. Apparantly the ihp 100 can't even with firmware update. Sounds a bit fishy to me... but in the iriver community forum they were saying that the ihp120 has slightly different hardware inside... with regard to the recording functionality anyway? Any info?
Also DAPREVIEW... any chance that that mystery 2.5" hard disk player you are going to be reviewing will be the zen Xtra

Thanks, iHP-120 will be available to us soon if all goes well.

iHP-100 will support Ogg as well, so that's nice to know.

About the mic... Well, you cannot plug in an extrernal mic just yet, that's right. No idea whta the iHP-120 can do about this.

The 2.5 " HDD player was a bit of a miss, but we'll make it up with you. I'm getting 2 of them in the near future, although Zen NX is probably the last of these two to arrive at my place. So... the mystery continues. The "strange" player costs about 275 Euro for 20 GB, which is very cheap to European standards.

Btw, maybe you've noticed already, but we've had a major setback with dapreview.com. Our host decided it would be extremely funny to delete our account *without a single warning*. Lucklily enough, I got a decent back up. Some old data is really lost though -> never trust hostonce.com, I would advise you all.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #68 – 2003-10-03 02:55:24

The 20gb Karma is popping up in stores now! Supposedly Fry's Electronics has a lot of them in California, Amazon has small shipments of them in sporadically, and Circuit City has a few with free shipping. I can't wait to get my hands on one...

Riovolution.com

sv3n

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #69 – 2003-10-03 05:00:30

Okay, I am about to buy my FIRST ever MP3 player. I first decided to go for the iRiver IMP-395T. I know that many people on HA think that iRiver's sound quality is the best. I respect that opinion. However, it is expensive when compare to the Neuro 20GB hard-drive based player. Now, I am stuck between Neuro and IMP395T. Neuro is cheap, has lots of storage plus it can broadcast songs to radio sets. That is the coolest feature. But how does Neuro perform when it comes to sound quality? Can it play LAME --APS files perfectly? Let me know. Thanks

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #70 – 2003-10-05 23:28:18

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Neuro is cheap, has lots of storage plus it can broadcast songs to radio sets. That is the coolest feature. But how does Neuro perform when it comes to sound quality? Can it play LAME --APS files perfectly? Let me know. Thanks

I'm not having any problem with APS files. A couple of the Vorbis playing beta releases of
firmware couldn't play mp3 at all, and one version, 1.40, had some trouble with high bitrates.
However, 1.40a (also a beta) and the "production" release should be ok.

I just got mine last week. The broadcast is quite cool.

The reason it is cheaper is that they are clearing out the old
inventory before introducing the USB 2.0 version. I believe the plan is that folks who buy now will get a substantial discount if they want to upgrade. People who paid full price
($400) will get a free upgrade. At some point they will have a smaller hard drive so I may wait for that to upgrade.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #71 – 2003-10-07 22:58:54

Alright - I know the purpose of Hydrogen Audio is to discuss audio quality and not portable players, but I value the input of several posters here, so I am going to ask...

I have the cash saved up, and via selling my 2gen iPod. The question is.....now what to get???

1) I do not care about OGG or FLAC
2) Sound quality is the top priority
3) portability (size/weight) is a close second
3) A line out is very important
4) gapless play of WMA/AAC/MP3 is very important
5) an informative, and cool looking display is important
6) price per GB is important but not in the top 3
7) durability is important

style/design is the final consideration

Its basically down to the Rio Karma, 3rd Gen iPod, or Nomad Zen / Zen Xtra. The iPod is running 3rd simply because AAC is a pain right now. That may change with Windows iTunes. Plus - I hate that white, but can live with it if a good case is made.

Any insight with actual users?

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #72 – 2003-10-07 23:18:09

The Rio Karma is the only one with Gapless or Crossfade, and Flac would give you lossless quality.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #73 – 2003-10-08 00:55:55

The iRiver iHP-120 might work for you. I think there is a bug with gaps right now, but that will be fixed and it will be gapless. It will play Ogg Vorbis (but you do not care). It will be out very soon, if not already out. it has a Digital Line Out on the player, and is the same size as the iPod. It gets several more hours of play time than the iPod, but a couple less than the Karma.

Next Gen MP3 HD Players

Reply #74 – 2003-10-08 13:40:30

I had a chance to listen to MuVo2 when Creative having their warehouse sale in Singapore, my personal experience..... it sounds better than iPod!!!

But to be fair, I may be wrong, since I listen to iPod at PC Trade Show, which is too much noise and disturb my listening experience. Thus, I suggest u take a listen to it and judge yourself.

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