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Topic: tiny personal listening test (Read 7935 times) previous topic - next topic
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tiny personal listening test

Hello there,

you might ask why I'm still playing around with dead stuff like mp3pro, the reason is quite simple. Some guys I know are running a webstream since.. uhm.. yesterday and therefor using mp3pro @96Kbps. Since most of their sources are mp3, there are a lot of reasons speaking for simply using mp3.


for the fast ones

searching for a way to encode a wav to mp3pro and back to wav without losing the SBR stuff at the bitrates 64 and 96Kbps


the long run

Anyway, what I want to do is a simple compare between mp3pro and mp3 at the given bitrate of 96Kbps , maybe also at 64Kbps. I'm going to use the latest recommended mp3 codec (Lame 3.97b), although it might not be completely fair but the quality of their sources may vary so it's more a matter of personal interest.

The problem[u/] i have at the moment is the preparation of the files.
Since mp3pro is closed and only very few programms support it I have some problems with getting the files as mp3pro AND, the bigger problem, get them back to a wav in a proper way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I, as I already did, transcode them with for example dbpoweramp or anything like that the wav sounds like the mp3pro decoded by a normal mp3 decoder and not like it should sound.
The only result I got from my tests till now is that (to my ears) @64Kbps lame3.97b sounds better than mp3pro without SBR, witch is a result of some use since many listeners on webstreams don't have a mp3pro decoder installed.

that's it so far,
if (what I'm not sure of) audiostreams usually get transcoded anyway before they stream them some other codecs like ogg vorbis would also be a possible candidate.

tiny personal listening test

Reply #1 –
Quote
if (what I'm not sure of) audiostreams usually get transcoded anyway before they stream them some other codecs like ogg vorbis would also be a possible candidate.


It might be Off Topic, but personally, I would not base an internet streaming service on mp3Pro.

Because, at some point, you might consider making your service commercial, and then you pay 2% (mp3) 3% (mp3Pro) of the revenue to the... http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/emd.html

Of course, mp3 has a big advantage of being widespread standard, so it could stay - but for mp3Pro I really see no reason to adopt it.

Two better candidates:

AAC / HE-AAC (also known as aacPlus) - it does not bear streaming costs as mp3/mp3Pro do, and now most widespread software (Nero, Apple iTunes - only LC, Winamp) support it.  Also it is part of 3G cellphone standard, so most mobile phones in the future (and many of today) will be able to cope with it, and it has high quality.

Ogg Vorbis - which is free and without patent license, and also of high quality, it has a lot of open-source backing nowdays.

tiny personal listening test

Reply #2 –
Good morning, Hollunder.

Musicmatch can also decode the MP3PRO to WAV.  Encode/decode, it does both.

[opinion]
I would stick with mainstream codecs.  Using OGG, Quicktime, MP3PRO, etc. will severely limit your audience.
[/opinion]

tiny personal listening test

Reply #3 –
They are not going to make it commercial, they pay the fees they have to pay out of their own pocket and hope to get enough donations.

I also think that mp3pro is the worst choice, basicly because only few programms do support it natively, almost any can play it, but it just sounds crappy without the hights.

But I want to ground my choice on some listeningtests, so the possible candidates would be:

mp3
mp3pro
AAC/HE-AAC (whichone to choose at 96Kbps? Is it available for streamingprogramms?)
ogg Vorbis (the 'normal' one?, aotuv? cbr or vbr?)

still many Problems and the mp3pro problem is unsolved.



Edit: @Woody_woodward
I did try it with mmjb, but I couldn't find a way to to this with mmjb 10. The only thing I found was the possibility to record from CD and convert it to mp3pro.

tiny personal listening test

Reply #4 –
Quote
Edit: @Woody_woodward
I did try it with mmjb, but I couldn't find a way to to this with mmjb 10. The only thing I found was the possibility to record from CD and convert it to mp3pro.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=361502"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Option is under the file menu.  Click 'File' then 'Convert Files'

tiny personal listening test

Reply #5 –
Quote
ogg Vorbis (the 'normal' one?, aotuv? cbr or vbr?)

The latest and greatest, aoTuVb4.51.

tiny personal listening test

Reply #6 –
here is what I would do...
lame (3.90.3) -q 0 -V 9 --lowpass 16 --resample 44 --nspsytune
mp3pro... whatever...
oggenc (aotuv b4.51) -q 2 --advanced-encode-option lowpass_frequency=19
i would also throw aacplus in the test too.. just for kicks

mp3pro can also be decoded using the winamp plugin.. for winamp, heh
Vorbis-q0-lowpass99
lame3.93.1-q5-V9-k-nspsytune

tiny personal listening test

Reply #7 –
sounds like codec tweaking to me, I think I'll stick with the standard setting for this bitrate (oggvorbis -q 2, ...)
how high is the lowpass for aotuv b4.51 -q 2? is it static and too low or is there any other reasen for this tweak?
and why lame 3.90.3?
maybe I add HE-AAC, the nero one 'cause I don't see a way to test the apple one.

tiny personal listening test

Reply #8 –
If you are now comparing ogg at 96kbps to mp3 at the same bitrate, that is going to be a very short test.

tiny personal listening test

Reply #9 –
gameplaya15143, I think many of this board's members would disagree with your recommendations.

And with your settings and your statement about lowpass filters in your sig, for that matter.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.

tiny personal listening test

Reply #10 –
The default lowpass for aoTuVb4 -q2 is 16.5 kHz.

Increasing it will increase the bitrate, possibly above your 96kbps target, although going from 16.5 kHz to 19kHz probably won't make a huge difference.

tiny personal listening test

Reply #11 –
Quote
here is what I would do...
lame (3.90.3) -q 0 -V 9 --lowpass 16 --resample 44 --nspsytune[...]
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=361596"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Only problem is that when streaming, most programs don't like MP3 VBR audio streams (Vorbis is okay though o_O). Winamp skips around, iTunes buffers like crazy, and Windows Media Player plays the audio sped up or slowed down.

tiny personal listening test

Reply #12 –
Quote
gameplaya15143, I think many of this board's members would disagree with your recommendations.

And with your settings and your statement about lowpass filters in your sig, for that matter.


[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=361658"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i agree

Quote
Quote
here is what I would do...
lame (3.90.3) -q 0 -V 9 --lowpass 16 --resample 44 --nspsytune[...]
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=361596"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Only problem is that when streaming, most programs don't like MP3 VBR audio streams (Vorbis is okay though o_O). Winamp skips around, iTunes buffers like crazy, and Windows Media Player plays the audio sped up or slowed down.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=361841"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

winamp's in_mp3 handles a vbr mp3 stream just fine, as does in_mpg123... wmp, dont make me laugh  .... but just for kicks...
lame 3.90.3 -b 96 -q 0 --lowpass 16 --resample 44 --nspsytune
(actually the vbr cli should have been -q 5 ... oops)
lame 3.90.3 because of nspsytune... the new versions sound almost as [insert tos8 violation here] as 3.90.3 at this bitrate IMO 
i dont think useing lame -b 96 is even worth testing 

note: oggenc lowpass at -q 2 with v1.0.1 was at 17khz i think.. lowpass is a bit lower in aotuv
note2: if you throw in HE-AAC, you should prolly test nero and coding tech. (from winamp5)
note3: i like codec tweaking
Vorbis-q0-lowpass99
lame3.93.1-q5-V9-k-nspsytune

tiny personal listening test

Reply #13 –
It seems COOL EDIT 2 supports mp3pro well (both encode and decode).

fb2k, winamp, wmp, mpc, etc. treat mp3pro as normal mp3, which cause mp3pro low quality.
iTunes, QuickTime just refuse to play mp3pro files.