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Topic: Have we reached the limit of lossy codecs? (Read 19559 times) previous topic - next topic
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Have we reached the limit of lossy codecs?

Reply #25 –
Quote from: hellokeith on
Just curious if there is a feeling that lossy encoding is near its limit of compression-to-quality efficiency, or is there a lot of life yet?

Is lossy research even a worthy pursuit with lossless compression codecs gaining support in large amount of CE devices?

Dude, there are almost unimaginable possibilities of lossy compression.
However, more advanced coding algorithms exist mostly for speech signals. There, you're getting quite close to complete desynthesis (decomposition, parametrization upon encoding) and resynthesis (parametric speech synthesis upon decoding) of the signal.
Theoretically, you could do the same with music. The problem is to find a suitable system (model) with enough input parameters and to find algorithms which would parametrize the music so that the system produces similar music when fed with such parameters. For speech there exist quite reliable models which allow for very high compression ratios (you use them in Teamspeak, Skype, GSM, etc.).
Theoretically, you could decompose electronic (synthetic) music into tabs and synthesis parameters for synthetic instruments thus reaching an insane compression ratio (upon playback, you would just synthesize "instrument" samples and "play" the instruments using the tabs). With "real music", this would be MUCH (perhaps next to impossible) harder...

Have we reached the limit of lossy codecs?

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Martel on
Theoretically, you could decompose electronic (synthetic) music into tabs and synthesis parameters for synthetic instruments thus reaching an insane compression ratio (upon playback, you would just synthesize "instrument" samples and "play" the instruments using the tabs). With "real music", this would be MUCH (perhaps next to impossible) harder...

MIDI anyone?

Have we reached the limit of lossy codecs?

Reply #27 –
Quote from: Martel on
However, more advanced coding algorithms exist mostly for speech signals. There, you're getting quite close to complete desynthesis (decomposition, parametrization upon encoding) and resynthesis (parametric speech synthesis upon decoding) of the signal.
Theoretically, you could do the same with music. The problem is to find a suitable system (model) with enough input parameters and to find algorithms which would parametrize the music so that the system produces similar music when fed with such parameters. For speech there exist quite reliable models which allow for very high compression ratios (you use them in Teamspeak, Skype, GSM, etc.).

Would you call any of those codecs "transparent"? All those codecs do not aim for sounding transparent, but "good enough for conversation".

When digital synthesizers stormed the music world, researchers would work for over twenty years to restore the "organic", "chaotic" and "natural" feeling which analogue synthesizers had as a native feature. And now we should throw all that effort away? Sure, you could TRY to in addition model that as well..... the problem is that this probably is more effort than is required just to not "fall behind" new instrument and effects inventions. It would be way more efficient if the music itself were stored as parameters, and then mixed down when listening - but how likely is it that artists and labels are gonna do that? Here we notice the difference between theory and practice - in THEORY, all kinds of compression are possible in some imaginary ideal world......the practical implementation of most of them though, is unrealistic.
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

Have we reached the limit of lossy codecs?

Reply #28 –
Both HE-AAC and mp3PRO attempt to synthesise higher frequency content rather than storing it and reconstructing it, and neither of those sound transparent at the bitrates they're claimed to be to me personally, so there are limits to what can be achieved by cheating. 

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

Have we reached the limit of lossy codecs?

Reply #29 –
Quote from: Slipstreem on
Both HE-AAC and mp3PRO attempt to synthesise higher frequency content rather than storing it and reconstructing it, and neither of those sound transparent at the bitrates they're claimed to be to me personally, so there are limits to what can be achieved by cheating. 

Cheers, Slipstreem. 


Well, there are limits right now.  We don't know what the future can hold in terms of "cheating" or lossy encoding.