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Topic: Building a Listening Room (Read 17034 times) previous topic - next topic
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Building a Listening Room

Please recommend me a Sound Card, Quality Speakers, cables etc etc

Thank you!

Building a Listening Room

Reply #1 –
First question: How much are you prepeared to spend?
Nov schmoz kapop.

Building a Listening Room

Reply #2 –
2nd question:
Do you want to actually build a room or just equip it?
ruxvilti'a

Building a Listening Room

Reply #3 –
Soundcard: M-Audio Revo or audiophile 24/96 for stereo only (has RCA outputs & looks more professional

1st advice: stay AWAY from anything new that has SONY or technics written on it and costs less than $500.

2nd: don't buy any audio gear (besides sound card / speakers (excluded) / DAC / headphones) that weighs less than 6kg

3rd: try to locate a vintage audio 'dealer'... ahem... in your area (err... the crazy guy that collects stuff and sells it from time to time) you'll be blown away by the sound of some old stuff (I have pre&amp made in 1976 & speakers made in 1983) - carbon-dated

4th: if you have a friend obsessed with classical music and is blessed with a decent stereo system, take him around with his favorite CD's when shopping/auditioning to have a 2nd opinion. They never miss

5th: if 3 is out of the question, just locate someone that could help you build a diy kit set of speakers.

6th: for interconnects & speaker cables use CAT5E (yes, network) cable. Does wonders. Search on Google for 'DIY CAT5 cables'.

7th: wait one month (to document yourself on the issues). I didn't do this and I changed 6 pairs of speakers in 2 months (Klipsch Promedia 5.1, some russian bass&treble only speakers, old HH Scott ones, SONY SS-MF515, Revox AX4-3, Infinity RSII) and 5 amps (old Pioneer, new SONY, old Harmon Kardon stereo receiver, recent Harmon Kardon 5.1 receiver, settled to Revox Pre & Amp)

8th: Use your ears

edit: typos + 'weight restriction' on kritip's suggestion

Building a Listening Room

Reply #4 –
If it is, as i assume from "soundcard," a listening room powered by computer, I'd recommend either:
- Doing a lot of research into quiet computers (there was another thread on that here)
- Putting the computer elsewhere (closet, adjoining room, etc.) and using a KVM switch for monitor connection and USB repeater for keyboard/mouse connections.  Either that or setup a server elsewhere and connect to it remotely using a thin-client and X-windows network transparency, or something for WinXP if you prefer that (like the NCD thin clients... basically a monitor with a network card and some firmware).

The difference between a quiet room and a room with audible computer fan will be much greater than any minute differences caused by cable quality, and probably more than even differences in speaker quality as long as your speakers are something acceptable.

Building a Listening Room

Reply #5 –
Quote
2nd: don't buy any audio gear (besides sound card / speakers / DAC) that weighs less than 6kg

I suggest you add headphone to that, >6Kg on ya head would be a bit uncomfortable for prolonged listening tests!!     

Kristian

Building a Listening Room

Reply #6 –
I'm just curious what you want out of this 'listening room'
'Mastering room' comes to mind, but I suppose that's only my thang :B

There's a lot to consider depending on the demands and the purpose of this room.

Building a Listening Room

Reply #7 –
Quote
Quote
2nd: don't buy any audio gear (besides sound card / speakers / DAC) that weighs less than 6kg

I suggest you add headphone to that, >6Kg on ya head would be a bit uncomfortable for prolonged listening tests!!     

Kristian

Okay, headphones included & I should've mentioned that speakers should be way heavier than 6kg. Mine are 45kg a piece  Of course, not always bigger/heavier is better, so take that with a grain of salt...

Building a Listening Room

Reply #8 –
1. Don't believe local audio dealers, they want to push the most expensive crap.
2. Take a good (classical/electronic music) CD/DVD with you for testing.
3. Try to get real specs of the loudspeakers/preamp/amp. (THD/SNR/IMD)
If there are none available, don't buy. (Applies only to new equipment)
4. Use your ears.
5. Cover the walls with something unreflective (e.g. thick material)
6. STP (Shielded Twisted Pairs) is probably even better than UTP...
7. Buy good headphones... Good and inexpensive substitute of real listening room.
8. Silence your computer (quiet HDD, CD, especially fans) or put it in another room.
9. Remember - more expensive isn't always better.
ruxvilti'a

Building a Listening Room

Reply #10 –
You can spend a lot of money on equipment , but if the room itself and the accoustics sucks, then you are out of luck. I assume you are interested in stereo music and possible 5.1 movies:

- Use a big room - like 35-60 m^2.

- Avoid a room with 2 or 3 equal dimensions - the cube room: 2.5 x 2.5 x 2.5 m really sucks for audio.

- Put a carpet on the floor  - at least between front speakers and listening position.

- If the ceiling is hard or low, you might want to put something soft on it between front speakers and listening position. It might look stupid, but sometimes it is neccesary.

- If the room is small, you might want to put something soft on the walls as well. Some foam rubber - 50cm x 50cm x 5cm behind-above the speakers can do wonders. Also behind ears on back wall. It might look stupid, but sometimes it is neccesary.

- Get at least 50 cm of air behind speakers and 100 cm to the side walls. You will want to move the speakers a lot to find the proper spots by ear.

-  Get at least 100 cm of air behind the couch. It helps a lot with music and does wonders for surround sound. If there is less air, you can cover the entire back wall with something soft. 

- Make sure the distance between the speakers is shorter than the distance from one speaker to the ear.

- Symmetry



Other advice

- Place speakers on spikes

- Use cheap cat5 cable as speaker cable

- Use ordinary interconnects or preferable digital cables

- Be careful not to tangle interconnects/speaker cables with power cables

- Get a silent PC - see Silent PC HOWTO

- And finally: The way your brain perceives music is unknown to mankind. The colour of the walls might affect how good you feel about the music. Take the time to do the smalls thing that make you happy - i.e. hiding the cables inside the walls, adjusting the light level and so on.


Equipment: There are basically two configurations:
A: PC with good soundcard connected analog to amp
B: PC with any non-resampling soundcard connected digitial to external dac

High-end equipment cost a lot of money - especially if is must be new. You can save a lot if you buy used, i.e. eBay. I bought a €2,200 Sony TA-E9000 digital preamp for only €500.

Building a Listening Room

Reply #12 –
thank you all for your replies

1. i allready have the room i just want to equip it
2. I don't want to spend more than 1000 euros (just for a start) (not much , huh....      )
3. The "audio pc" will be a low end, thus silent, in the listening room but in a distant corner, and i am going to use bluetooth to controll it, it will be LANned with the "storage pc" in the upper floor (via wi-fi)
4. In the room there will be the equip, the couch and a painting and some spotlights, no problem to cover walls with unreflective


From what i hear from here m-audio revo is probably going to be my soundcard. But what about speakers? i cant decide 2.1 , 5.1 , 6.1 , 7.1. Please help!

Thank you

Building a Listening Room

Reply #13 –
My advice:

- Dont' use CAT5 cable for speaker or interconnect cable. In addition to taking too much hassle to build them, for speaker they seem to have too much resistance (according to some measurements in a related thread), although some people say they like how it sounds, but this could not be your case. Better use some standard zip cord of reasonable gauge size (in other words, standard speaker/electric cable, but with reasonable thickness). For interconnects, you need shielding, so UTP won't do. STP could do, but again it's too much hassle. You can use standard interconnects that come with the equipment, without any worries (except it they are broken, that is).

- No need to use cones on speakers, nobody has proved from a theorical or practical (in a rigorous test) point of view that they do any good. I you are very concerned about avoiding resonances on floorstanding speakers, better use some soft rubber feet.

- The only part where it can be worth to spend some serious money is on speakers, but you can get nice speakers without spending a lot of $$$. A Revo card and a mid-level amplifier or receiver from a known brand will be fine in most cases.

- If you have a small listening room or bad acoustics (small room=bad acoustics) I think it is a good idea to use near-field monitoring, in order to diminish bad acoustics influence.


Edit: is the pc included in those 1000 euro? If so, you will have serious problems to put together anything that sounds well, unless you get a cheap 2nd hand pc.

Building a Listening Room

Reply #14 –
Quote
Edit: is the pc included in those 1000 euro? If so, you will have serious problems to put together anything that sounds well, unless you get a cheap 2nd hand pc.

no it is not

Building a Listening Room

Reply #15 –
Well, there's some good low-powered computer systems built to be quiet, available for in the range of $500-$600.  Since it's just for playing audio, something in the range of 500-700 MHz should be sufficient.  There's coincidentally a story with some related links currently at slashdot here.

Building a Listening Room

Reply #16 –
Quote
...But what about speakers? i cant decide 2.1 , 5.1 , 6.1 , 7.1. Please help!

There is no decent 5.1 system for under USD 1000, so go with 2.0 (plain stereo instead). You may add progressively speakers to get to 4.0 or more if you need to watch the movies with surround that bad.

Recommended new gear for this price: Infinity Alpha 40 & any Harman Kardon amp/receiver. Should be more than enough.

Another thing: google anything you have in mind before you buy.

Building a Listening Room

Reply #17 –
What are the actual dimensions of your room?  I would be hesitant to recommend a 2.1 system as an initial purchase if your room is large.  This is mostly because the small, inexpensive subwoofer you can afford will likely fail to provide the sheer output, let alone quality, you will need in a large room.  Regardless of your room's size, I would personally recommend progressively building a higher-end system instead of trying to get too much at one time for too little and sacrificing quality.  The progression I would strongly recommend would be the following:  2 - 2.1 - 3.1 - 5.1

However, if your room is small to medium in size and you want to get everything at once, there is little better for little money than the Energy Take 5+1 or 5.2 systems.  Just add a 5 channel amp and you are set.

As for the issue of amplification, are you planning on using internal decoding or running SPDIF out to an external processor/receiver?  If you are using internal decoding you may be able to get away with just purchasing a good 5 channel amplifier.  As long as the Revolution's output attenuation can be kept under control I would think this to be a good solution.

Oh, and use YOUR ears.  If you plan to live with these speakers for a long time then make sure you sit down and really listen to the speakers you are interested with your favorite CDs and/or DVDs.  Hell, go out to shops and listen to theaters built around speakers made by Wilson Audio, Revel, JMLab, etc.  Listen to the best out there regardless of price, find your reference (that which blows you away), and then go out and listen to speakers in your price range and find those which offer an experience that most closely matches your chosen reference.

Building a Listening Room

Reply #18 –
Quote
Recommended new gear for this price: Infinity Alpha 40 & any Harman Kardon amp/receiver. Should be more than enough.

I'd agree. I just bought a pair of Infinity Alpha 40 for $500 new. AudioSource Amp Two is great too. A budget nice stereo amplifier. It is recommended to be the best in under $500 range (1 , 2). I got it refurbished for around $150. Sounds amazing together.
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

Building a Listening Room

Reply #19 –
Quote
- No need to use cones on speakers, nobody has proved from a theorical or practical (in a rigorous test) point of view that they do any good. I you are very concerned about avoiding resonances on floorstanding speakers, better use some soft rubber feet.

If you have padded carpet, spikes/cones can help a lot.  Without them tall speakers (or sats on stands)may not even stand up straight if one side sinks in the padding more than the other.  Spikes get you a better
anchor to the floor under the carpet.  If your speakers are stable & straight without them, then I don't believe they have any magic effect on the sound.

Building a Listening Room

Reply #20 –
Quote
2. I don't want to spend more than 1000 euros (just for a start) (not much , huh....  )


I think you might wanna just invest in some nice headphones

Building a Listening Room

Reply #21 –
I'd say nice headphones and a good headphone amplifier.
ruxvilti'a

Building a Listening Room

Reply #22 –
no headphones pls..... 

can you please recommend me brands for the equip (amps, speakers etc etc) ?
is there any good forum for such things (HQ audio), with people that (really) know and are willing to help others (just like HA.org) ?


Thank you!

Building a Listening Room

Reply #23 –
Quote
no headphones pls..... 

can you please recommend me brands for the equip (amps, speakers etc etc) ?
is there any good forum for such things (HQ audio), with people that (really) know and are willing to help others (just like HA.org) ?


Thank you!

I'll repeat: Infinity Alpha 40 speakers, any Harman Kardon amp/receiver.

also check http://www.audioasylum.com/, but they're a bit gone in the wrong direction...

Building a Listening Room

Reply #24 –
Quote
can you please recommend me brands for the equip (amps, speakers etc etc) ?

I personally like the Sony ES series and speakers from Snell Acoustics. But they are too  expensive to buy new.

I recommend buying a good used stereo amp with a retail price of $600+. This could be one of these: Sony TA-FA3ES, Sony TA-FA30ES, Sony TA-FA50ES, Sony TA-FA70ES, Sony TA-FA777ES. But there are many other good brands out there. Before buying, check Google and possible
audioreview.com.

Maybe you can find a cheap pair of Snell E4 used.