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Scale the Summit's "Master" Fail, Ths is what we can expect now, I guess.
Engelsstaub
post Feb 22 2013, 22:42
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I (thankfully) don't listen to this band but I have Prosthetic Records on my Facebook due to a few others on their roster that I appreciate.

Here's a screenshot of what these dumbasses submitted to the label as their "master." Is anyone else shocked that any record company would accept this as normal?



...I guess we can expect this sort of "professionalism" from the recording industry these days.


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Engelsstaub
post Feb 26 2013, 04:21
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 25 2013, 05:44) *
...
As for 16/44.1 not being enough to master vinyl - there was a great discussion on the Steve Hoffman forums with the guy who mastered the new Beatles vinyl from 24/44.1 masters, saying why they didn't go back to the 24/96 versions (those versions hadn't been "fixed" and approved by the Beatles/partners), and why there was no need to (can't cut those higher frequencies anyway).

Here's a question though: knowing that the master is 16/44.1, 24/48, 24/96 whatever, and having some belief that "formats numerically better than 16/44.1 are audibly superior", why the heck would you be badgering the recording company about how it releases the vinyl? Surely far better to badger the record company to just sell you the digital master.
...


Hi, David.

You raise some good points and I would love to read the discussion on the Beatles vinyl. I don't really read the Hoffman forums unless a Google-search sends me there for something. I wouldn't have crapped myself if they said they were mastered from 24/44.1. I'm surprised they even told anyone that. To me it just seems amateurish and lazily inept to not do the best we can. If that's the best they had then people should accept it. It would be better than constantly rolling out some really old master tapes that have probably degraded quite a bit by now. Digital is great and I don't sit around pining for the days when I couldn't clean up a needle-drop with such precision as I can on my computer now smile.gif I would really hate to go back to taping records to play in my Walkman or car.

I would badger record companies to sell me the digital master for certain albums. I think that would be fruitless and they would find such a request strange TBH. ...especially in the days of file-sharing and such I think they'd be hesitant to release "more" than CD or vinyl versions. (Whatever "more" means...could be 24/48 or "less-limited" rather than post DRC. Whatever.)

Remember the Woods of Ypres sample I uploaded in that last thread I posted about Vinyl vs. CD masters? I love that album and would love the master for it but it would be nearly impossible to get as the singer/mastermind has sadly passed on. The gatefold 2 x LP is literally the best version you can get. I own three copies of it on vinyl (one unopened) plus the CD (which I donated to my daughter's collection. I actually discouraged her from getting into vinyl because I felt it would be a bigger pain in the arse than what she'd be willing to deal with.) I digitized it and it sounds fantastic "even" as a Redbook CD-R. biggrin.gifI kept it at 24/96 in case I want to dick around with it some more in iZotope RX2 or Audition.

...anyway my point is I highly value a great-sounding edition of any album I think highly of. And I will pay sometimes more than once smile.gif OTOH: I can often settle for the CD or iTunes release if it's not available on vinyl or I just don't care as much. (Edit: and yes I sometimes get a really bad LP that sends me after the CD to replace it. Bad-pressings are nearly non-existent on CD. No IGD either if the company was too cheap to put an album over forty minutes or so on more than one vinyl.)

This post has been edited by Engelsstaub: Feb 26 2013, 04:27


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2Bdecided
post Feb 27 2013, 11:15
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QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 26 2013, 03:21) *
I don't really read the Hoffman forums unless a Google-search sends me there for something. I wouldn't have crapped myself if they said they were mastered from 24/44.1. I'm surprised they even told anyone that.
This guy cut the vinyl...
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/search/1394390/

We already had our own thread here...
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....75&start=75


btw, in asking for proof that "pressing vinyl from CD-R is a standard practice in the industry" - aren't you setting up a straw man there? I mean, whether the source is a CD-R, a pressed CD, some 16/44.1 files off a DAW, 16/48 off a DAT back in the day, etc - they're all (what I think you believe to be) comparatively low resolution sources.

None of us have a large enough sample to claim what the majority practice is these days, but using those as sources for vinyl releases is certainly common practice. Signal analysis proves it. Some engineers admit it. As you said, given the market, "I'm surprised they even told anyone that" - well, indeed - which is why you can't always believe claims that higher resolution sources have been used. Sometimes, on various formats, such claims have been conclusively debunked.


It is not unexpected that no one here really cares. No one has ever proven an audible difference (other than vinyl can have obvious flaws). The entire point of HA is to improve what makes an audible difference, and ignore what does not.

Cheers,
David.
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Posts in this topic
- Engelsstaub   Scale the Summit's "Master" Fail   Feb 22 2013, 22:42
- - greynol   It's what's on the disc that matters, and ...   Feb 22 2013, 23:12
- - xnor   Nobody knows what's on the disc but the record...   Feb 22 2013, 23:20
- - DVDdoug   I'm not sure if there's anything wrong wit...   Feb 22 2013, 23:22
- - Engelsstaub   @ greynol: You don't have to guess, greynol. I...   Feb 22 2013, 23:26
|- - Glenn Gundlach   Why would you assume it's necessarily 44.1 ? I...   Feb 24 2013, 02:49
||- - greynol   QUOTE (Glenn Gundlach @ Feb 23 2013, 17:4...   Feb 24 2013, 17:12
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 22 2013, 14:26) ...   Feb 27 2013, 09:05
- - greynol   I think you're going to have a very hard time ...   Feb 22 2013, 23:31
|- - botface   It's a long time since I was involved in the m...   Feb 24 2013, 13:15
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (botface @ Feb 24 2013, 07:15) It...   Feb 24 2013, 14:00
- - Engelsstaub   Yeah, I'm not trying to play that "16 bit...   Feb 22 2013, 23:46
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 22 2013, 22:46) ...   Feb 22 2013, 23:59
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (db1989 @ Feb 22 2013, 22:59) If yo...   Feb 25 2013, 12:44
- - carpman   Do record companies expect 16 bit masters? 45 min...   Feb 22 2013, 23:47
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (carpman @ Feb 22 2013, 16:47) Do r...   Feb 22 2013, 23:53
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 22 2013, 14:53) ...   Feb 23 2013, 00:09
- - carpman   I just asked a question (and not directed at you)....   Feb 22 2013, 23:59
- - greynol   It's a master, FFS. At some point something w...   Feb 23 2013, 00:02
- - xnor   Audio CDs are 44.1/16, why would you give the reco...   Feb 23 2013, 00:27
- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (db1989 @ Feb 22 2013, 16:59) ...Ot...   Feb 23 2013, 00:54
|- - xnor   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 23 2013, 00:54) ...   Feb 23 2013, 01:05
||- - greynol   QUOTE iTunes Let's not even go there or I migh...   Feb 23 2013, 01:13
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 22 2013, 15:54) ...   Feb 23 2013, 01:05
- - Wombat   To me Master simply means final means ready for pr...   Feb 23 2013, 00:58
- - Engelsstaub   My belief is this: A Redbook CD is completely fin...   Feb 23 2013, 01:22
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 22 2013, 16:22) ...   Feb 23 2013, 01:45
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 22 2013, 19:22) ...   Feb 23 2013, 22:18
|- - GeSomeone   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 23 2013, 01:22) ...   Feb 25 2013, 01:09
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Feb 24 2013, 18:09) QU...   Feb 25 2013, 01:19
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 24 2013, 19:19) ...   Feb 25 2013, 13:42
- - DVDdoug   QUOTE ...but seriously: if my cart is specced to d...   Feb 23 2013, 02:07
- - Engelsstaub   @ greynol in general: Welp, it remains that Apple ...   Feb 23 2013, 02:30
- - Porcus   Hm. Is the issue here that a CD possibly an audi...   Feb 23 2013, 02:33
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Porcus @ Feb 22 2013, 17:33) What ...   Feb 23 2013, 02:51
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 23 2013, 02:51) It...   Feb 23 2013, 03:42
- - greynol   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 22 2013, 17:30) ...   Feb 23 2013, 02:37
- - Engelsstaub   @ Porcus: That's the stated issue, yes. Ther...   Feb 23 2013, 02:39
- - Engelsstaub   ...and...I'm done. Thanks.   Feb 23 2013, 02:52
- - greynol   27 responses in a little over four hours, not too ...   Feb 23 2013, 03:33
- - saratoga   I really don't see what the big deal is. If i...   Feb 23 2013, 23:47
- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Feb 23 2013, 15...   Feb 24 2013, 02:37
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 23 2013, 20:37) ...   Feb 24 2013, 13:53
- - S3NT13NT_GL1TCH   If it contains a disc image or some other kind of ...   Feb 24 2013, 18:47
- - greynol   While I may be stating the obvious, burning and su...   Feb 24 2013, 20:40
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 24 2013, 13:40) ...T...   Feb 24 2013, 22:51
||- - greynol   Yes, that's different. I don't think I...   Feb 24 2013, 23:33
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 24 2013, 20:40) AFAI...   Feb 26 2013, 23:48
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Porcus @ Feb 26 2013, 16:48) QUOTE...   Feb 27 2013, 03:44
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 26 2013, 18:44) ...   Feb 27 2013, 04:04
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 26 2013, 21:04) QUOT...   Feb 27 2013, 04:48
- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Feb 24 2013, 06...   Feb 24 2013, 22:40
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 24 2013, 16:40) ...   Feb 25 2013, 00:28
- - greynol   You might want to check some of your recent upload...   Feb 25 2013, 01:22
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 24 2013, 18:22) You ...   Feb 25 2013, 01:36
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 24 2013, 19:36) ...   Feb 25 2013, 01:40
||- - greynol   QUOTE (saratoga @ Feb 24 2013, 16:40) Giv...   Feb 25 2013, 01:57
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 24 2013, 19:57) QUOT...   Feb 25 2013, 02:59
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (saratoga @ Feb 24 2013, 20:59) QUO...   Feb 25 2013, 14:07
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 24 2013, 16:36) ...   Feb 25 2013, 01:52
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 24 2013, 18:52) ... ...   Feb 25 2013, 02:46
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 24 2013, 17:46) ...   Feb 25 2013, 04:24
- - Engelsstaub   ...this is all above my pay-grade I couldn...   Feb 25 2013, 03:06
- - almostmitch   but I like Scale The Summit..   Feb 25 2013, 16:28
- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Feb 25 2013, 06...   Feb 26 2013, 04:00
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 25 2013, 22:00) ...   Feb 26 2013, 13:13
||- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Feb 26 2013, 06...   Feb 26 2013, 23:43
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 26 2013, 17:43) ...   Feb 27 2013, 16:43
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 25 2013, 22:00) ...   Feb 27 2013, 16:22
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Feb 27 2013, 09...   Feb 27 2013, 23:06
- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 25 2013, 05:44) .....   Feb 26 2013, 04:21
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 26 2013, 03:21) ...   Feb 26 2013, 10:55
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 26 2013, 03:21) ...   Feb 27 2013, 11:15
|- - Kees de Visser   Emil Berliner Studios has re-introduced vinyl mast...   Feb 27 2013, 11:38
|- - probedb   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 27 2013, 10:15) Th...   Feb 27 2013, 11:55
- - greynol   Reminds me of a boss I had, VP of Marketing and In...   Feb 26 2013, 06:31
- - 2Bdecided   These samples... http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/foru...   Feb 26 2013, 15:37
- - greynol   FWIW, I just updated this post with an example of ...   Feb 26 2013, 21:41
- - greynol   Yawn.   Feb 26 2013, 23:50
- - LithosZA   Personally I don't care if anything was source...   Feb 27 2013, 06:18
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (LithosZA @ Feb 26 2013, 23:18) Per...   Feb 27 2013, 08:14
|- - noiselab   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 26 2013, 23:14) ...   Feb 27 2013, 13:06
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (noiselab @ Feb 27 2013, 06:06) ......   Feb 27 2013, 13:26
|- - db1989   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Montgomery The ...   Feb 27 2013, 13:59
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (db1989 @ Feb 27 2013, 06:59) http:...   Feb 27 2013, 14:09
- - greynol   @OP: Sigh. My comment that the record industry h...   Feb 27 2013, 06:25
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 26 2013, 23:25) Sigh...   Feb 27 2013, 07:35
- - greynol   Reading comprehension escapes you.   Feb 27 2013, 08:08
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 27 2013, 01:08) Read...   Feb 27 2013, 08:16
- - greynol   Somehow as a moderator I'm not allowed to chal...   Feb 27 2013, 08:46
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 27 2013, 01:46) Some...   Feb 27 2013, 09:46
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Feb 27 2013, 03:46) ...   Feb 27 2013, 20:18
- - greynol   You're sure pinning a lot on a sample of only ...   Feb 27 2013, 10:42
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 27 2013, 03:42) ... ...   Feb 27 2013, 12:00
- - noiselab   To the first - I'm not really fussed about cre...   Feb 27 2013, 14:24
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (noiselab @ Feb 27 2013, 07:24) ......   Feb 27 2013, 14:58
- - 2Bdecided   The reasons for using more than 16-bits during pro...   Feb 27 2013, 15:21
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 27 2013, 09:21) Th...   Feb 27 2013, 16:27
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 27 2013, 09:21) Th...   Feb 27 2013, 20:21
- - frozenspeed   Who cares what the vessel looks like, in this case...   Feb 27 2013, 16:11
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