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is fading in/out a lossy process?, [moved from FLAC]
unicorn20
post Feb 19 2013, 18:09
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hey all you audio experts of the forum.
i've been interested in lossless music for a long time and i got almost all of my knowledge about it from this forum.
i have an issue that i'm trying to figure out, and i've searched everywhere possible for info about it but i couldn't find any.
so you guys are my last resort, i hope you can help...
here's the issue :

i download many lossless albums all the time (WAV,APE,ALAC,FLAC), but i only keep to myself those few songs (if any) from each album, those songs that i liked the most.
most albums are ripped with gap detection so they begin with silence and end with silence, but there are some albums that don't, albums such as :

mixed albums (where the songs dissolve into each other)
live albums (where the tracks begin and end with the audience clapping or shouting)
one track albums (where there are no gaps or pauses between tracks)

i find it very annoying to listen to songs that comes from albums like the above, so i fix it using audacity, i fade in, and fade out, add some silence if necessary (using the "generate - silence" option), the thing is i can't help thinking maybe i am turning this perfect lossless file into a lossy one, and by doing so actually creating a fake lossless (since i'm always exporting as flac), my ears can't hear any difference, but still, you know way more than i do about these things.

so please tell me, does the "fade in / fade out / add silence" processes make a lossless file lossy?

sorry if my english is bad, i hope it's understandable, and if you find any mistakes please correct me.

thanks smile.gif

This post has been edited by unicorn20: Feb 19 2013, 18:10
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unicorn20
post Feb 19 2013, 23:11
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wow, you guys are quick hehehe
well, thank you all for answering, and i sure have learned a lot, but something is still unclear to me.
on the one hand, i understand from halb27 & extrabigmehdi that everything i didn't touch (aka everything not faded) will remain the same, which is perfect for me, and extrabigmehdi is right, i don't care about the fact that whatever's been faded cannot be recovered, it's only 1 second of the entire song in most cases.
but then there's this dithering thing that andrew_berge is talking about, i never heard of it, and if it modifies the entire file than even the parts i didn't mess with are becoming different, which is a big problem for me, could you please explain to me what is this dithering thing, and how can i change it so that it won't change the file completely?
oh, and Garf, if you meant a portable player, i don't have one, i'm just listening to the music in my PC.
and if you meant a media playing software like winamp and such, i don't realy like it, since it's only cosmetic.
i also want to make sure that other people who aren't as techy as i am can enjoy these songs (i share them to many people) without having to download any extra software for it.
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db1989
post Feb 20 2013, 00:09
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QUOTE (unicorn20 @ Feb 19 2013, 22:11) *
oh, and Garf, if you meant a portable player, i don't have one, i'm just listening to the music in my PC.
and if you meant a media playing software like winamp and such, i don't realy like it, since it's only cosmetic.
Winamp is by no means the only media player that can crossfade, and many that can provide countless features beyond “only cosmetic” ones. But if you’d rather spend lots of time manually and irreversibly altering your files when you could instead use a player capable of automatically and non-destructively fading them for you, then OK.

QUOTE
i also want to make sure that other people who aren't as techy as i am can enjoy these songs (i share them to many people) without having to download any extra software for it.
Oh, you should have said! Definitely upsample your files to 192 kHz and 32-bit floating-point, then encode them with Blade. Happy sharing!
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Posts in this topic
- unicorn20   is fading in/out a lossy process?   Feb 19 2013, 18:09
- - halb27   In a formal sense fading in/out is a lossy process...   Feb 19 2013, 18:16
- - Garf   Fade in and out is lossy. You cannot recover the o...   Feb 19 2013, 18:36
- - andrew_berge   Also, Audacity dithers everything by default, so i...   Feb 19 2013, 18:56
- - jensend   halb27, being different isn't what defines los...   Feb 19 2013, 18:57
- - extrabigmehdi   QUOTE (unicorn20 @ Feb 19 2013, 17:09) so...   Feb 19 2013, 19:32
|- - db1989   QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Feb 19 2013, 18:32...   Feb 19 2013, 20:01
- - halb27   As far as I can see the OP doesn't want to res...   Feb 19 2013, 19:34
- - dhromed   Andrew Berge's comment about dither is more im...   Feb 19 2013, 20:41
- - halb27   My problems with Audacity was when exporting to a ...   Feb 19 2013, 21:19
- - unicorn20   wow, you guys are quick hehehe well, thank you all...   Feb 19 2013, 23:11
|- - andrew_berge   I'm not so good at explaining this, so i'l...   Feb 19 2013, 23:29
|- - db1989   QUOTE (unicorn20 @ Feb 19 2013, 22:11) oh...   Feb 20 2013, 00:09
|- - yourlord   QUOTE (unicorn20 @ Feb 19 2013, 17:11) i ...   Feb 20 2013, 00:21
- - halb27   Dithering adds some noise to the least significant...   Feb 19 2013, 23:32
- - greynol   I think the world is better off to have them modif...   Feb 20 2013, 01:04
- - mjb2006   unicorn20, in your original post, you mentioned ga...   Feb 20 2013, 09:22
- - unicorn20   i'd like to begin by saying ***THANK YOU SO MU...   Feb 20 2013, 21:47
|- - pdq   QUOTE (unicorn20 @ Feb 20 2013, 15:47) QU...   Feb 20 2013, 22:01
||- - unicorn20   QUOTE (pdq @ Feb 20 2013, 22:01) db1989 s...   Feb 20 2013, 22:54
||- - greynol   QUOTE (pdq @ Feb 20 2013, 13:01) db1989 s...   Feb 20 2013, 23:03
|- - mjb2006   QUOTE (unicorn20 @ Feb 20 2013, 13:47) yo...   Feb 20 2013, 23:03
- - greynol   My point was not necessarily targeted exclusively ...   Feb 21 2013, 00:09
|- - mjb2006   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 20 2013, 16:09) ther...   Feb 21 2013, 01:58
|- - greynol   QUOTE (mjb2006 @ Feb 20 2013, 16:58) The ...   Feb 21 2013, 02:10
- - db1989   If I make sure to include something like this in ...   Feb 21 2013, 00:46
- - greynol   You are too kind, db1989. I stopped aiding people...   Feb 21 2013, 00:49


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