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A new discussion on over-compressed CD titles, Split from the one comparing vinyl to CD (no vinyl involved)
db1989
post Jan 29 2013, 18:20
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QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jan 29 2013, 15:41) *
QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 29 2013, 12:03) *
This looks like one for the list of vinyl that beats the CD issue:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/cali...-4#post-8180551
(note - it's only the new vinyl, not the old vinyl).
Is there a reason for not putting this new version out on CD or iTunes? Other than finally giving the world the evidence that Vlado Meller has devastating influence on rock music?
QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 29 2013, 22:35) *
In my opinion there's never a reason why a good-sounding master, as found on any LP, shouldn't be put to CD or iTunes. (And I say that as one who likes and purchases vinyl as much or more than digital.)

EDIT: I don't mean any LP has a better sounding master than the CD. Poorly-worded perhaps.
Yes, fans with competent hearing feeling obliged to buy a new version would be insult enough, but that’s so many times worse when it costs $35 (to quote one figure) and is not properly (=100%) archivable.

And now for something completely different: Is Coldplay’s Mylo Xyloto covered in clipping, or was I imagining it? I have yet to examine any waveforms, but I seem to have noticed a distinct fizziness a couple of times while listening to it, which really doesn’t fit the style (as if clipping ever does, but you know what I mean).

This post has been edited by db1989: Feb 1 2013, 17:07
Reason for edit: adding quotes to contextualise first paragraph due to threads being split
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mixminus1
post Feb 1 2013, 18:20
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Just because a waveform visibly clips doesn't automatically mean it sounds bad...after all, this is HA, right? wink.gif

Clipping, and its potential audibility, is always a matter of degree, whether in the "classic" sense of hitting the input to an A/D hard enough to produce overs, or in the more "modern" sense of utilizing a digital brickwall limiter. I've heard plenty of albums that have visible clipping throughout, but sound great (Aimee Mann's "Lost in Space" is a favorite example of mine). It's all a matter of the decisions made by the artist/producer/mixer/mastering engineer. Just because something *can* be misused and abused, and frequently is, doesn't mean it *has* to be.

It's interesting that Oasis's "Morning Glory" album was mentioned - I absolutely love the sound of that album. I think it's the perfect representation of *that* music being played by *that* band. Would the same production and mixing have worked for, say, Radiohead? Of course not, and vice versa. The sound on "Morning Glory" strikes me as a great example of Olde Skool analog production methods and equipment being used to great effect. It always makes me think of standing in a small rehearsal space with a good rock band going full tilt. It's just this huge mass of sound - DR0! - and the visceral impact is literally breathtaking.

Oh, and regarding heavily-clipped tracks - 3027 clips on a single track? Try The Chemical Brothers' "Setting Sun" - scanning it with the "Overcompressed CD" preset gives 88,805 clips...and it sounds like it. wink.gif


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bug80
post Feb 1 2013, 18:55
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I rescanned 'Champagne Supernova' with the 'overcompressed CD' setting and found 6545 clippings. I will look to those in more detail later. Thanks for the tip, cliveb.

QUOTE (mixminus1 @ Feb 1 2013, 19:20) *
Just because a waveform visibly clips doesn't automatically mean it sounds bad...after all, this is HA, right? wink.gif

Clipping, and its potential audibility, is always a matter of degree, whether in the "classic" sense of hitting the input to an A/D hard enough to produce overs, or in the more "modern" sense of utilizing a digital brickwall limiter. I've heard plenty of albums that have visible clipping throughout, but sound great (Aimee Mann's "Lost in Space" is a favorite example of mine). It's all a matter of the decisions made by the artist/producer/mixer/mastering engineer. Just because something *can* be misused and abused, and frequently is, doesn't mean it *has* to be.

Agreed, and that's what good limiters try to achieve.

QUOTE
It's interesting that Oasis's "Morning Glory" album was mentioned - I absolutely love the sound of that album. I think it's the perfect representation of *that* music being played by *that* band. Would the same production and mixing have worked for, say, Radiohead? Of course not, and vice versa. The sound on "Morning Glory" strikes me as a great example of Olde Skool analog production methods and equipment being used to great effect. It always makes me think of standing in a small rehearsal space with a good rock band going full tilt. It's just this huge mass of sound - DR0! - and the visceral impact is literally breathtaking.

I can imagine people liking this sound, but I don't. As you can guess from my username I was 15 years old when this album was released. I had no clue about sound, mixing, mastering and how CDs work back then, but I remember that was the first time I heard that something was 'wrong' with the sound, even though I liked the songs. I can't help imaginging how it would sound with 2-3 dB's more dynamic range. It will probably be way more in your face, powerful and punchy than it is now.
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David Jay
post Feb 3 2013, 16:03
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Glad people here found the Owen Morris interview of interest! I was lucky to get in contact with him and he was very generous in providing info for my site on the recording, mixing and mastering of Oasis's early albums.

The Dynamic Range Database features several relevant entries on the subject of the mastering, which show the possibility of more dynamic masterings of the Oasis catalogue. Here's one example... the very rare Stop the Clocks instrumental promo CD: http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=9057 (The b-side The Masterplan is DR5 on the mastered mix but DR13 here. Some Might Say is DR4 mastered, DR12 unmastered).

If you search by Oasis and click to order the results by descending DR there are a number of other similar entries relating to their earlier recordings from 1994-6. Also some of the earlier singles are less heavily compressed than the album versions of the same tracks. The Supersonic and Some Might Say singles spring to mind (the latter was mastered at Abbey Road and has greater dynamics than the album version).

This post has been edited by db1989: Feb 3 2013, 19:38
Reason for edit: deleting pointless full quote of above post
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2Bdecided
post Feb 4 2013, 14:39
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QUOTE (David Jay @ Feb 3 2013, 15:03) *
Glad people here found the Owen Morris interview of interest! I was lucky to get in contact with him and he was very generous in providing info for my site on the recording, mixing and mastering of Oasis's early albums.

The Dynamic Range Database features several relevant entries on the subject of the mastering, which show the possibility of more dynamic masterings of the Oasis catalogue. Here's one example... the very rare Stop the Clocks instrumental promo CD: http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=9057
Wow - Some Might Say on there is a revelation. I bet with that, and some rock band stems, you can make a decent mix? Though maybe the SACD stereo fold-down is a decent mix (still haven heard it).

QUOTE
If you search by Oasis and click to order the results by descending DR there are a number of other similar entries relating to their earlier recordings from 1994-6.
http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?...&order=desc Someone has had great fun uploading data to that list. wink.gif

QUOTE
Also some of the earlier singles are less heavily compressed than the album versions of the same tracks. The Supersonic and Some Might Say singles spring to mind (the latter was mastered at Abbey Road and has greater dynamics than the album version).


As you quote on your site, Owen isn't really a fan though... "The single version was mastered at Abbey Road and sounded appalling. My mastered version of the song for the Morning Glory album is good." ...!

Cheers,
David.
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Posts in this topic
- db1989   A new discussion on over-compressed CD titles   Jan 29 2013, 18:20
- - Kohlrabi   QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 29 2013, 18:20) And n...   Jan 29 2013, 23:13
|- - bug80   QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jan 30 2013, 00:13) QUO...   Jan 30 2013, 14:31
|- - Kohlrabi   QUOTE (bug80 @ Jan 30 2013, 14:31) Pleade...   Jan 30 2013, 14:49
|- - bug80   QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jan 30 2013, 15:49) QUO...   Jan 30 2013, 15:03
- - cliveb   I don't listen to Coldplay, but my wife has a ...   Jan 31 2013, 11:16
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (cliveb @ Jan 31 2013, 10:16) I don...   Jan 31 2013, 11:57
||- - cliveb   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 31 2013, 10:57) Ho...   Jan 31 2013, 18:17
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (cliveb @ Jan 31 2013, 04:16) ...ex...   Jan 31 2013, 12:16
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 31 2013, 11:16) ...   Jan 31 2013, 12:28
||- - bug80   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 31 2013, 13:28) QU...   Jan 31 2013, 13:37
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (bug80 @ Jan 31 2013, 12:37) Well, ...   Jan 31 2013, 15:08
|||- - bug80   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 31 2013, 16:08) QU...   Feb 1 2013, 13:51
|||- - cliveb   QUOTE (bug80 @ Feb 1 2013, 12:51) Coldpla...   Feb 1 2013, 15:41
||- - cliveb   QUOTE (bug80 @ Jan 31 2013, 12:37) BTW, I...   Jan 31 2013, 18:23
|- - db1989   QUOTE (cliveb @ Jan 31 2013, 10:16) I don...   Feb 4 2013, 22:51
- - 2Bdecided   Talking of clipping and distortion: Emeli Sandé - ...   Feb 1 2013, 14:12
|- - bug80   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 1 2013, 15:12) You...   Feb 1 2013, 14:24
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (bug80 @ Feb 1 2013, 08:24) QUOTE (...   Feb 7 2013, 04:34
||- - cliveb   QUOTE (krabapple @ Feb 7 2013, 03:34) Wha...   Feb 7 2013, 21:02
||- - krabapple   Sorry cliveb, I'd forgotten about the variance...   Feb 8 2013, 21:05
|- - bug80   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 1 2013, 15:12) Tal...   Feb 1 2013, 14:32
- - mixminus1   Just because a waveform visibly clips doesn't ...   Feb 1 2013, 18:20
|- - bug80   I rescanned 'Champagne Supernova' with the...   Feb 1 2013, 18:55
|- - David Jay   Glad people here found the Owen Morris interview o...   Feb 3 2013, 16:03
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (David Jay @ Feb 3 2013, 15:03) Gla...   Feb 4 2013, 14:39
|- - bug80   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 4 2013, 14:39) QUO...   Feb 4 2013, 15:09
|- - David Jay   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 4 2013, 14:39) Wow...   Feb 8 2013, 14:05
- - LithosZA   QUOTE It's good that a site like this exists, ...   Feb 4 2013, 16:18
|- - bug80   QUOTE (LithosZA @ Feb 4 2013, 16:18) QUOT...   Feb 4 2013, 23:17
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (bug80 @ Feb 4 2013, 22:17) That ma...   Feb 5 2013, 10:05
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (cliveb @ Feb 5 2013, 04:05) Limiti...   Feb 7 2013, 04:38
- - Neuron   If I find something not loud enough, I turn up the...   Feb 4 2013, 22:22
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Neuron @ Feb 4 2013, 21:22) If I f...   Feb 5 2013, 17:02
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 5 2013, 10:02) ......   Feb 6 2013, 01:24
- - LithosZA   QUOTE That makes me curious: what kind of music do...   Feb 5 2013, 12:21
- - Mach-X   I think too much has been made of the whole 'l...   Feb 6 2013, 10:41
|- - Stone Free   QUOTE (Mach-X @ Feb 6 2013, 10:41) I...   Feb 6 2013, 15:33
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Mach-X @ Feb 6 2013, 03:41) ....   Feb 6 2013, 16:46
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Mach-X @ Feb 6 2013, 04:41) I...   Feb 7 2013, 04:43
- - greynol   FWIW, I believe later releases of Justice got the ...   Feb 6 2013, 17:48
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 6 2013, 17:48) FWIW,...   Feb 6 2013, 18:29
- - greynol   Clearly not the treatment I'm talking about, w...   Feb 6 2013, 20:58
- - bug80   On a positive note, the new Nick Cave album did no...   Feb 15 2013, 10:53


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