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A new discussion on over-compressed CD titles, Split from the one comparing vinyl to CD (no vinyl involved)
db1989
post Jan 29 2013, 18:20
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QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jan 29 2013, 15:41) *
QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 29 2013, 12:03) *
This looks like one for the list of vinyl that beats the CD issue:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/cali...-4#post-8180551
(note - it's only the new vinyl, not the old vinyl).
Is there a reason for not putting this new version out on CD or iTunes? Other than finally giving the world the evidence that Vlado Meller has devastating influence on rock music?
QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 29 2013, 22:35) *
In my opinion there's never a reason why a good-sounding master, as found on any LP, shouldn't be put to CD or iTunes. (And I say that as one who likes and purchases vinyl as much or more than digital.)

EDIT: I don't mean any LP has a better sounding master than the CD. Poorly-worded perhaps.
Yes, fans with competent hearing feeling obliged to buy a new version would be insult enough, but that’s so many times worse when it costs $35 (to quote one figure) and is not properly (=100%) archivable.

And now for something completely different: Is Coldplay’s Mylo Xyloto covered in clipping, or was I imagining it? I have yet to examine any waveforms, but I seem to have noticed a distinct fizziness a couple of times while listening to it, which really doesn’t fit the style (as if clipping ever does, but you know what I mean).

This post has been edited by db1989: Feb 1 2013, 17:07
Reason for edit: adding quotes to contextualise first paragraph due to threads being split
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Neuron
post Feb 4 2013, 22:22
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If I find something not loud enough, I turn up the volume on my speakers. In extreme cases (such as Sade's classic 80s song Smooth Operator), I normalize the file to 0 dB without compression or clipping. I don't feel dynamic music is "weak", in fact the loud parts, especially drums, kick a lot more.

Extreme compression destroys the bass and the kick of the sound, as demonstrated in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ . I even experimented myself with an original 1980s song, and my own overcompressed "2010s style" variant. After Replaygaining the 2 files and ABXing them, the overcompressed clipped one (I destroyed it roughly to the same level as the later Red Hot Chilli Peppers albums) had signifactly less kick than the original one. Clipression does not add kick to music, it just distorts it.

Today I heard a song in the morning in our car's radio which was obviously clipping beyond belief - it was the same loudness as the other songs yet it had distortion noise all over it. It was so strong that even me being half asleep (before anyone asks, I was not the driver) listening to a song on the car stereo it still sounded really awful. FM radio has dynamic compression, but it is an utilitarian one that increases signal area reception, not optimized for extra loudness. Death Magnetic CD version will sound just as loud on FM radio as does Sade - Smooth Operator, only DM will sound awfully distorted while Sade will sound very good (I am not stating this as some 80s music snob, I actually love Death Magnetic, but the Guitar Hero version [which has nice dynamics to go with the awesome songs]).

Overcompressed, clipping music does not sound good as ingame music, it does not sound good on car stereos, it does not sound good on good hi-fi systems, it does not sound good on bad hi-fi systems, it sounds bad on good computer speakers and it sounds bad on horrible computer speakers. There is simply no excuse for the loudness war.

This post has been edited by Neuron: Feb 4 2013, 22:23
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2Bdecided
post Feb 5 2013, 17:02
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QUOTE (Neuron @ Feb 4 2013, 21:22) *
If I find something not loud enough, I turn up the volume on my speakers.
I just use ReplayGain wink.gif

QUOTE
In extreme cases (such as Sade's classic 80s song Smooth Operator), I normalize the file to 0 dB without compression or clipping. I don't feel dynamic music is "weak", in fact the loud parts, especially drums, kick a lot more.

Extreme compression destroys the bass and the kick of the sound, as demonstrated in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ . I even experimented myself with an original 1980s song, and my own overcompressed "2010s style" variant. After Replaygaining the 2 files and ABXing them, the overcompressed clipped one (I destroyed it roughly to the same level as the later Red Hot Chilli Peppers albums) had signifactly less kick than the original one. Clipression does not add kick to music, it just distorts it.
There are degrees of it, and sometimes more sounds better (up to a point, in some contexts) as I tried to show here...
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=99166


There is something about the fullness of clipressed mastering that's appealing - but it must be possible to get that sound without actual distortion/clipping.

It amazes me how many CDs audibly clip the bassline these days (for a few years now) - it sounds like the equipment is broken.

It also amazes me that they don't sell two or even three different versions - full dynamics, squashed dynamics, and clipped to death. I'm sure enough people would buy more than one version to make it commercially useful.

Cheers,
David.

This post has been edited by 2Bdecided: Feb 5 2013, 17:02
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Engelsstaub
post Feb 6 2013, 01:24
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 5 2013, 10:02) *
...
It also amazes me that they don't sell two or even three different versions - full dynamics, squashed dynamics, and clipped to death. I'm sure enough people would buy more than one version to make it commercially useful...


Earache Records (a UK-based record company/distributor that specializes in metal...mostly of the more extreme variety) has been offering "dynamically unlimited masters" of select titles they've been reissuing. They are said to be cut from original master tapes. Unfortunately for many, they are seemingly limited to the vinyl re-releases.


--------------------
The Loudness War is over. Now it's a hopeless occupation.
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Posts in this topic
- db1989   A new discussion on over-compressed CD titles   Jan 29 2013, 18:20
- - Kohlrabi   QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 29 2013, 18:20) And n...   Jan 29 2013, 23:13
|- - bug80   QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jan 30 2013, 00:13) QUO...   Jan 30 2013, 14:31
|- - Kohlrabi   QUOTE (bug80 @ Jan 30 2013, 14:31) Pleade...   Jan 30 2013, 14:49
|- - bug80   QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jan 30 2013, 15:49) QUO...   Jan 30 2013, 15:03
- - cliveb   I don't listen to Coldplay, but my wife has a ...   Jan 31 2013, 11:16
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (cliveb @ Jan 31 2013, 10:16) I don...   Jan 31 2013, 11:57
||- - cliveb   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 31 2013, 10:57) Ho...   Jan 31 2013, 18:17
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (cliveb @ Jan 31 2013, 04:16) ...ex...   Jan 31 2013, 12:16
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 31 2013, 11:16) ...   Jan 31 2013, 12:28
||- - bug80   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 31 2013, 13:28) QU...   Jan 31 2013, 13:37
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (bug80 @ Jan 31 2013, 12:37) Well, ...   Jan 31 2013, 15:08
|||- - bug80   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jan 31 2013, 16:08) QU...   Feb 1 2013, 13:51
|||- - cliveb   QUOTE (bug80 @ Feb 1 2013, 12:51) Coldpla...   Feb 1 2013, 15:41
||- - cliveb   QUOTE (bug80 @ Jan 31 2013, 12:37) BTW, I...   Jan 31 2013, 18:23
|- - db1989   QUOTE (cliveb @ Jan 31 2013, 10:16) I don...   Feb 4 2013, 22:51
- - 2Bdecided   Talking of clipping and distortion: Emeli Sandé - ...   Feb 1 2013, 14:12
|- - bug80   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 1 2013, 15:12) You...   Feb 1 2013, 14:24
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (bug80 @ Feb 1 2013, 08:24) QUOTE (...   Feb 7 2013, 04:34
||- - cliveb   QUOTE (krabapple @ Feb 7 2013, 03:34) Wha...   Feb 7 2013, 21:02
||- - krabapple   Sorry cliveb, I'd forgotten about the variance...   Feb 8 2013, 21:05
|- - bug80   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 1 2013, 15:12) Tal...   Feb 1 2013, 14:32
- - mixminus1   Just because a waveform visibly clips doesn't ...   Feb 1 2013, 18:20
|- - bug80   I rescanned 'Champagne Supernova' with the...   Feb 1 2013, 18:55
|- - David Jay   Glad people here found the Owen Morris interview o...   Feb 3 2013, 16:03
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (David Jay @ Feb 3 2013, 15:03) Gla...   Feb 4 2013, 14:39
|- - bug80   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 4 2013, 14:39) QUO...   Feb 4 2013, 15:09
|- - David Jay   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 4 2013, 14:39) Wow...   Feb 8 2013, 14:05
- - LithosZA   QUOTE It's good that a site like this exists, ...   Feb 4 2013, 16:18
|- - bug80   QUOTE (LithosZA @ Feb 4 2013, 16:18) QUOT...   Feb 4 2013, 23:17
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (bug80 @ Feb 4 2013, 22:17) That ma...   Feb 5 2013, 10:05
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (cliveb @ Feb 5 2013, 04:05) Limiti...   Feb 7 2013, 04:38
- - Neuron   If I find something not loud enough, I turn up the...   Feb 4 2013, 22:22
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Neuron @ Feb 4 2013, 21:22) If I f...   Feb 5 2013, 17:02
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Feb 5 2013, 10:02) ......   Feb 6 2013, 01:24
- - LithosZA   QUOTE That makes me curious: what kind of music do...   Feb 5 2013, 12:21
- - Mach-X   I think too much has been made of the whole 'l...   Feb 6 2013, 10:41
|- - Stone Free   QUOTE (Mach-X @ Feb 6 2013, 10:41) I...   Feb 6 2013, 15:33
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Mach-X @ Feb 6 2013, 03:41) ....   Feb 6 2013, 16:46
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Mach-X @ Feb 6 2013, 04:41) I...   Feb 7 2013, 04:43
- - greynol   FWIW, I believe later releases of Justice got the ...   Feb 6 2013, 17:48
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 6 2013, 17:48) FWIW,...   Feb 6 2013, 18:29
- - greynol   Clearly not the treatment I'm talking about, w...   Feb 6 2013, 20:58
- - bug80   On a positive note, the new Nick Cave album did no...   Feb 15 2013, 10:53


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