IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Why is opus only good at 64/kbs
Warning
post Jan 26 2013, 10:31
Post #1





Group: Banned
Posts: 18
Joined: 22-January 12
Member No.: 96612



So I was very skeptical about opus when it sounded like a new OGG Vorbis hype where the codec is both free and crappy quality. I didn't think without SBR it would be able to compete with Nero HE-AAC. So I compared at different bitrates and opus always sounded worse. I decided to ABX at different bitrates, opus failed on 32 and 48 but not 64 where the treble was audibly brighter than Nero.

Ok you got me convinced that opus sounds better at 64 kb/s, why does it suck so bad at other bitrates? Also, why didn't you guys include WMA in your listening test along with opus? WMA has proven to be slightly superior quality to HE-AAC at 64 kb/s so maybe opus still has a competitor.

Also, fix your biased testing methodology and keep the bitrates as close as possible to the original! Jesus. My hypothetical codec produces output bitrates of 192 kb/s when my quality setting intends it to be half as less, I demand it to be nominated as capable of transparency at 16 kb/s. rolleyes.gif
Your unscientific results makes me keep clear of your website these days.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
Kamedo2
post Jan 26 2013, 22:24
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 220
Joined: 16-November 12
From: Kyoto, Japan
Member No.: 104567



QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 18:31) *
My hypothetical codec produces output bitrates of 192 kb/s when my quality setting intends it to be half as less, I demand it to be nominated as capable of transparency at 16 kb/s. rolleyes.gif

I failed to understand this sentence. My guess is like this:

In the last Opus 64k public test, the codecs and settings were calibrated to provide ~64kbps on a large variety of music, but these tests tend to use harder samples and Vorbis used 73.4kbps for the tested samples, which are typically hard. This means, Vorbis will use about 54.6kbps for easier samples, which is somewhat worrisome and annoys me but not something I'd consider unscientific.

However, if Vorbis allocate only 32kbps for easy samples people typically don't test, words like "abuse" or "cheat" would come up to my mind. This hypothetical hyper-VBR allocates more bits to the hard samples people typically test, and "abusing" easy samples exists in calibration albums but people don't test.

Ideally, average bitrates of test samples should be close to calibration albums by including enough easy samples, but preference for harder samples is unavoidable sometimes. My opinion is that testers calculate calibrate_albums_bitrate*2 - tested_samples_bitrate and make sure it isn't extremely low. When it is, add more easy samples.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Warning   Why is opus only good at 64/kbs   Jan 26 2013, 10:31
- - db1989   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 09:31) So I...   Jan 26 2013, 10:51
- - LithosZA   QUOTE Ok you got me convinced that opus sounds bet...   Jan 26 2013, 12:10
- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 11:31) Also...   Jan 26 2013, 12:18
- - IgorC   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 06:31) Also...   Jan 26 2013, 17:29
- - greynol   I'm guessing he's in violation of TOS #12,...   Jan 26 2013, 17:44
- - Kamedo2   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 18:31) My h...   Jan 26 2013, 22:24
|- - DonP   QUOTE (Kamedo2 @ Jan 26 2013, 16:24) Howe...   Jan 27 2013, 14:06
- - Warning   Results: CODEABC/HR Version 1.0, 6 May 2004 Testn...   Jan 26 2013, 22:56
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:56) WMA ...   Jan 26 2013, 23:10
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:56) Resu...   Jan 26 2013, 23:20
||- - Warning   QUOTE Unless I'm misunderstanding something, y...   Jan 27 2013, 00:03
||- - db1989   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 23:03) Wast...   Jan 27 2013, 00:27
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 18:03) QUOT...   Jan 27 2013, 00:37
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 21:56) OGG ...   Jan 26 2013, 23:31
|- - DonP   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:56) I...   Jan 27 2013, 14:37
- - IgorC   Achtung! Das ist sehr gut!   Jan 26 2013, 23:05
- - IgorC   Exactly. As poll 2013 has indicated that only two ...   Jan 26 2013, 23:19
- - greynol   ...and with this discussion the troll count just i...   Jan 26 2013, 23:32
- - Warning   http://www.sendspace.com/file/x4ec7d AAC and opus...   Jan 27 2013, 01:07
|- - Nick.C   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, 00:07) .......   Jan 27 2013, 01:14
||- - Warning   QUOTE (Nick.C @ Jan 27 2013, 01:14) QUOTE...   Jan 27 2013, 01:26
||- - greynol   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 16:26) I...   Jan 27 2013, 01:50
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, 00:07) You ...   Jan 27 2013, 01:23
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 19:07) EDIT...   Jan 27 2013, 01:24
||- - Warning   QUOTE (saratoga @ Jan 27 2013, 01:24) I t...   Jan 27 2013, 01:34
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 19:34) QUOT...   Jan 27 2013, 01:44
|||- - NullC   This thread is generally awesome. I mostly _expec...   Mar 2 2013, 01:22
||- - db1989   Whether or not Iím being automatically ignored her...   Jan 27 2013, 01:50
||- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, 02:34) The ...   Jan 27 2013, 01:50
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Jan 26 2013, 19:50)...   Jan 27 2013, 02:13
|- - Seren   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, 08:07) AAC ...   Jan 27 2013, 01:33
- - greynol   @Chris: That's not the point. We don't ju...   Jan 27 2013, 02:14
- - Warning   @seren I don't use 32 kb/s for music, but I...   Jan 27 2013, 02:26
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 20:26) @sar...   Jan 27 2013, 02:37
||- - Warning   QUOTE (saratoga @ Jan 27 2013, 02:37) I d...   Jan 27 2013, 03:03
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 21:03) QUOT...   Jan 27 2013, 03:19
|||- - Warning   QUOTE (saratoga @ Jan 27 2013, 03:19) Tha...   Jan 27 2013, 06:23
|||- - IgorC   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, 02:23) So w...   Jan 27 2013, 14:07
||- - greynol   QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 26 2013, 18:03) AAC ...   Jan 27 2013, 03:49
|- - C.R.Helmrich   Good morning, QUOTE (Warning @ Jan 27 2013, ...   Jan 27 2013, 13:00
|- - greynol   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Jan 27 2013, 04:00)...   Jan 27 2013, 14:57
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 27 2013, 14:57) Ok g...   Jan 27 2013, 15:10
- - greynol   TOS 8 and 2. Your posting style (it is painfully ...   Jan 27 2013, 06:52
- - [JAZ]   I was tempted to reply to this thread yesterday bu...   Jan 27 2013, 09:46
- - db1989   It didnít take long for the nose-thumbing tantrum ...   Jan 27 2013, 12:43
- - greynol   You better go back and re-read. My Blade comment w...   Jan 27 2013, 15:17
- - Omicron   My encoded AAC is much worse than yours. And that ...   Feb 21 2013, 17:21
- - Warrior_   I'm posting to announce I've done ABX list...   Mar 1 2013, 22:32
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Warrior_ @ Mar 1 2013, 13:32) Abou...   Mar 2 2013, 02:15
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Warrior_ @ Mar 1 2013, 18:32) Nero...   Mar 2 2013, 20:39
- - db1989   Sup Warning. Bye Warning. P.S. I hope the terribl...   Mar 1 2013, 23:17
- - IgorC   How can they compare audio files by images which w...   Mar 2 2013, 03:03
- - db1989   Part of me would like to enumerate all the ways in...   Mar 2 2013, 03:10
- - splice   Woo. I could feel the hairs growing on the palms o...   Mar 2 2013, 11:18
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (splice @ Mar 2 2013, 10:18) I unde...   Mar 4 2013, 20:24
- - splice   Thank you for the explanation. I've noticed si...   Mar 4 2013, 21:06


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd December 2014 - 13:45