IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Current mp3gain alternatives for reducing clipping?, Clipping determined to have been caused by iTunes equalizer.
BrownNote80
post Dec 18 2012, 05:05
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 18-December 12
Member No.: 105243



Hi All,

First time poster, long time reader.
I've been using mp3gain for years, and I basically just want to know if there are any modern equivalents or alternatives to reduce clipping in mp3 files. This is all that I use mp3gain for. I do not use it to make all tracks or albums the same volume. I actually prefer there to be volume differences between songs and albums.

I'm surprised that "clipping" is not a more-discussed issue among all music listeners, not just audiophiles. I have countless examples of songs that, during their regular volume, even at 320 kbps, produce distortion that to my ears is unbearable. Like a fuzzy crackle whenever the levels push through the ceiling. After applying mp3gain to bring below the clipping level, these tracks sound perfect to my ears, and the clipping is totally eliminated. I can't imagine not lowering the gain on most tracks, and I guess that is why I'm surprised that there are not a plethora of programs that try to address it.

Anyway, mp3gain does what I need, which is "apply constant gain". I don't necessarily need track/album gain, target volume, or max-no-clip. I just like to be able to manually reduce tracks by a few decibels to eliminate clipping. Basically, my question is:

- Are there any other programs that do the same thing (i.e. reversible process to apply constant, custom gain reductions without loss in audio quality)? Are there any where the focus is removing clipping rather than equalizing volumes? I guess this is an odd thing to ask since mp3gain serves my purpose, but I can't help but think that this program is old, and support for it has run out. Surely there must be something equivalent that's more current? I've tried many recommended alternatives, but none of them seem to satisfy my needs - they're either way overboard (too many features I don't need), or they are missing key features. I'm also looking for a Mac equivalent, but none of the current Mac mp3gain ports have all of the following:
- Reversible
- Can analyze for clipping
- No loss in audio quality
- Can apply custom, constant gain changes to files/albums

Sorry for the long post, and many thanks for any help.

This post has been edited by BrownNote80: Dec 18 2012, 05:12
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
greynol
post Dec 18 2012, 08:36
Post #2





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 10000
Joined: 1-April 04
From: San Francisco
Member No.: 13167



QUOTE (BrownNote80 @ Dec 17 2012, 20:05) *
I have countless examples of songs that, during their regular volume, even at 320 kbps, produce distortion that to my ears is unbearable. Like a fuzzy crackle whenever the levels push through the ceiling. After applying mp3gain to bring below the clipping level, these tracks sound perfect to my ears, and the clipping is totally eliminated. I can't imagine not lowering the gain on most tracks, and I guess that is why I'm surprised that there are not a plethora of programs that try to address it.

The likely reason there isn't a plethora of programs to address it is because it is essentially a non-issue. What you are experiencing is in all likelihood the result of expectation bias. In keeping with rule #8 in our Terms of Service, to which you agreed upon registering, you are required to substantiate the anecdote I quoted with objective evidence.

While testing this is somewhat tricky because it requires isolating the effects of decoding while maintaining matched levels, it is completely doable.

Please provide 30-second clips of the same piece of audio (one with clipping one without) that has been time-aligned and level matched along with an ABX log indicating you can tell the difference or rescind your claim.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by greynol: Dec 18 2012, 09:00


--------------------
Placebophiles: put up or shut up!
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
bernlin2000
post Dec 19 2012, 20:54
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 18-December 12
Member No.: 105241



QUOTE (greynol @ Dec 18 2012, 01:36) *
QUOTE (BrownNote80 @ Dec 17 2012, 20:05) *
I have countless examples of songs that, during their regular volume, even at 320 kbps, produce distortion that to my ears is unbearable. Like a fuzzy crackle whenever the levels push through the ceiling. After applying mp3gain to bring below the clipping level, these tracks sound perfect to my ears, and the clipping is totally eliminated. I can't imagine not lowering the gain on most tracks, and I guess that is why I'm surprised that there are not a plethora of programs that try to address it.

The likely reason there isn't a plethora of programs to address it is because it is essentially a non-issue. What you are experiencing is in all likelihood the result of expectation bias. In keeping with rule #8 in our Terms of Service, to which you agreed upon registering, you are required to substantiate the anecdote I quoted with objective evidence.

While testing this is somewhat tricky because it requires isolating the effects of decoding while maintaining matched levels, it is completely doable.

Please provide 30-second clips of the same piece of audio (one with clipping one without) that has been time-aligned and level matched along with an ABX log indicating you can tell the difference or rescind your claim.

Thank you.


I've seen you say this in the forums before, but I actually did test it today. I had a peculiar file that could only got up to 78db in mp3gain before clipping was supposedly introduced. I my music library set to 93db, but with "no clipping" also ticked. I turned "no clipping" off though and made a copy of the 78db file, which then got processed at 93db. The resulting file clearly showed strong clipping and it pretty damn unpleasant. Then again, that's a 15 db change: I'd be curious to find out what the threshold is, because I've also changed 86db files (maxed out without clipping) to 93db and haven't been able to discern the difference off the top of my head. I suspect the threshold is probably closer to a 3db range (i.e. an 89db file could be safely normalized up to 92db without the clipping being discernible).

I'm curious what guys think, though: I want to play it safe but I also don't like having my music library range between 85db and 93db...kinda defeats the purpose of trying to normalize things with a range like that, and making everything quieter is a pretty lousy compromise (since 60-70% of my library can handle 93db without clipping just fine)

StepBackLoud
StepBackNorm
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- BrownNote80   Current mp3gain alternatives for reducing clipping?   Dec 18 2012, 05:05
- - A_Man_Eating_Duck   Replaygain?   Dec 18 2012, 07:47
- - greynol   QUOTE (BrownNote80 @ Dec 17 2012, 20:05) ...   Dec 18 2012, 08:36
|- - bernlin2000   QUOTE (greynol @ Dec 18 2012, 01:36) QUOT...   Dec 19 2012, 20:54
- - Dynamic   To test whether it's clipping or expectation b...   Dec 18 2012, 12:03
- - 2Bdecided   It might not be expectation bias. It could be dodg...   Dec 18 2012, 13:02
- - greynol   Either way, TOS8 still applies. We can speculate ...   Dec 18 2012, 15:14
- - BrownNote80   Did any of you even read my question? I'm not ...   Dec 18 2012, 17:39
- - john33   At the expense of upsetting some people, I would s...   Dec 18 2012, 19:44
|- - greynol   QUOTE (john33 @ Dec 18 2012, 10:44) The g...   Dec 18 2012, 20:03
- - A_Man_Eating_Duck   Did you miss my itty bitty post at the top?   Dec 18 2012, 19:45
|- - BrownNote80   QUOTE (A_Man_Eating_Duck @ Dec 18 2012, 11...   Dec 18 2012, 19:53
- - BrownNote80   Ok, so you've piqued my interest. I followed D...   Dec 18 2012, 19:51
|- - greynol   QUOTE (BrownNote80 @ Dec 18 2012, 10:51) ...   Dec 18 2012, 20:13
- - BrownNote80   Since we're apparently so hell-bent on discove...   Dec 18 2012, 20:26
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (BrownNote80 @ Dec 18 2012, 15:26) ...   Dec 20 2012, 03:03
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (saratoga @ Dec 20 2012, 02:03) For...   Dec 20 2012, 13:40
|- - skamp   QUOTE (saratoga @ Dec 20 2012, 03:03) For...   Dec 20 2012, 13:57
- - greynol   Try EQ-ing in such a way that none of the sliders ...   Dec 18 2012, 20:37
|- - BrownNote80   QUOTE (greynol @ Dec 18 2012, 12:37) Try ...   Dec 18 2012, 20:46
- - greynol   You're very welcome. I apologize for suggesti...   Dec 18 2012, 21:01
|- - BrownNote80   QUOTE (greynol @ Dec 18 2012, 13:01) You...   Dec 18 2012, 21:27
- - Dynamic   It sounds like you no longer need an alternative t...   Dec 19 2012, 02:38
- - greynol   Hi and welcome, I don't know what it is you t...   Dec 19 2012, 21:48
- - 2Bdecided   Some EQs (like the one in the Sansa clip) automati...   Dec 21 2012, 12:17
- - ErectX   MP3s directly encoded from loudness war era CD aud...   Dec 23 2012, 18:33


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 26th July 2014 - 02:18