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Why is reading ISRC so difficult?
imazed
post Dec 16 2012, 15:12
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This is my first post so apologies if it is not in the right place.
I plan to convert totally to digital replay keeping all my files on a media server and using a dedicated quiet PC for playback - nothing unusual about that.
I wanted to ensure that when I rip my CD collection I only do it once, that the audio is bit perfect, and the metadata is as compete and informative as possible.
I have spent a lot of time trying various ripping programs, validating metadata against Freedb, MusicBrainz, GD3 and I am now at the stage I can proceed with ripping my music collection EXCEPT that it seems to be almost impossible to get a reliable method of reading and storing the ISRC.
I have tried EAC, DBPoweramp, J rivers, MBRipper and Cuetools.
I have some CDS which will always give a valid ISRC, seven out of twelve, and the remaining five which I am unable to read. This is with any of the programs, any of three different drives, and two computers one running XP and one Windows 7. I repeat results are entirely consistent either ISRC is always there or it is never there.

YES, I do realise the seemingly obvious conclusion is that no ISRC exists but these are mainstream CDs by popular artists from labels like EMI and Columbia. As the entire music industry is paranoid about collecting royalties and the main identifier of who is playing on any track is linked to the ISRC I do not believe that the "obvious" conclusion is correct.
Interestingly the wikipedia article on the Red Book standard states:
The basic specifications state that

Maximum playing time is 79.8 minutes[5]
Minimum duration for a track is 4 seconds (including 2-second pause)
Maximum number of tracks is 99
Maximum number of index points (subdivisions of a track) is 99 with no maximum time limit
International Standard Recording Code (ISRC) should be included

If this is right then ANY compliant CD must have an ISRC encoded on each track.

On scouring this and other audio forums there are four alleged reasons why the ISRC cannot be read and these are:
1 - Your drive cannot read them - well if that was the case I would not see any of them.
2 - You have not set up the ripping program correctly - same response as point one.
3 - The ISRC does not exist on the tracks - I have no evidence to the contrary other than that previously stated.
4 - The ISRC cannot be transferred to the metadata and can only be seen in a cue sheet - I have tried writing Cue sheets and get identical results 7 out of 12 work.

The ISRC website states:
In the case of Compact Discs the ISRCs and other PQ-data are encoded in the disc sub-code (Q channel) in the disc mastering process. For this reason, ISRCs must be encoded for each track in the Pre-Master for CD. Most commercial mastering software applications have a field dedicated for ISRC. For electronically distributed formats, the ISRC of each track should be associated with it in the metadata of the file.

Does anyone have a set-up where they can reliably read ISRC?
Is there more than one method of encoding the ISRC on the CD? My understanding is that ISRC is 12 digits, case insensitive and is the first thing in the Q channel.
Is there any explanation as to why some codes are not detected by any of the programs I have listed?
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Porcus
post Dec 17 2012, 14:12
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We are talking about an industry who intentionally screwed up the error correction of the CD format and didn't mark the discs as such until the P of the S/PDIF put their lawyers at work. But certainly, the incentives were different.

There is a “Media Catalog Number” (MCN) as well. cdda2wav can report that: http://linux.about.com/library/cmd/blcmdl1_cdda2wav.htm

Also: http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=1908

This post has been edited by Porcus: Dec 17 2012, 14:16


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imazed
post Dec 17 2012, 20:34
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Porcus, Thank you for the links, I'm a bit slow so didn't quite understand what I was reading with the first. I will have another look this evening.
Regarding the Musicbrainz link the windows utility written by simonf is the same thing as MBripper which I downloaded directly from his site. I got the same results as using EAC.
The crucial point for me is that if these results are to be believed then ISRC and UPC(EAN or Catalog No) do not exist on 33-42% of CDs. Are you saying this is likely to be the case?
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tgoose
post Dec 18 2012, 17:11
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QUOTE (imazed @ Dec 17 2012, 19:34) *
The crucial point for me is that if these results are to be believed then ISRC and UPC(EAN or Catalog No) do not exist on 33-42% of CDs. Are you saying this is likely to be the case?

This is certainly should not be the case for CDs released within the last few years. I've worked in a couple of mastering houses and visited a few others from around 2007 onwards, and 99% of CDs I've seen were sent out with ISRCs included (majors, remasters, independents, self-releases, everything! The exception is probably some independent musicians who bypass a mastering engineer and go straight to the plant.)

That doesn't guarantee that all pressing plants are actually encoding those ISRCs onto the discs, but they should, and I don't see why they wouldn't! I don't have copies of any of the CDs you mention to check though.

Going back to the '90s and earlier, you would be more likely to find missing ISRCs.

This post has been edited by tgoose: Dec 18 2012, 17:12
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imazed
post Dec 19 2012, 10:47
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QUOTE (tgoose @ Dec 18 2012, 16:11) *
QUOTE (imazed @ Dec 17 2012, 19:34) *
The crucial point for me is that if these results are to be believed then ISRC and UPC(EAN or Catalog No) do not exist on 33-42% of CDs. Are you saying this is likely to be the case?

This is certainly should not be the case for CDs released within the last few years. I've worked in a couple of mastering houses and visited a few others from around 2007 onwards, and 99% of CDs I've seen were sent out with ISRCs included (majors, remasters, independents, self-releases, everything! The exception is probably some independent musicians who bypass a mastering engineer and go straight to the plant.)

That doesn't guarantee that all pressing plants are actually encoding those ISRCs onto the discs, but they should, and I don't see why they wouldn't! I don't have copies of any of the CDs you mention to check though.

Going back to the '90s and earlier, you would be more likely to find missing ISRCs.


Very useful, Many of my CDs are pre 2000 as I have gone out of my way to avoid remasters which have been compressed so they are TOO LOUD (another topic altogether). I have now scrapped my idea of relying on ISRC as the definitive identifier of a track Thanks for the helpful information guys. I realise that I have simply wasted a lot of time trying to read ISRCs which are not there!
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Kees de Visser
post Dec 19 2012, 16:03
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QUOTE (imazed @ Dec 19 2012, 10:47) *
I have now scrapped my idea of relying on ISRC as the definitive identifier of a track.
Good idea! ISRC is not a reliable way to identify audio content. There is no central repository of ISRC's that are assigned that can be used to track anything. It was supposed to end up that way, but never happened.
Up-to-date ISRC info can be found here on the ifpi website (International Federation of the Phonographic Industry). I was quite surprised to read that the only software they advise to read ISRC codes from CD is Mac drutil (command line), nothing for Windows or Linux. This is not going to encourage the use of ISRC.
I include ISRC's in my cd rips, they can be useful, but would never rely on them as a definitive identifier.

A colleague mastering engineer once joked: "I've always been tempted to set up my own label and apply my own ISRC to a Michael Jackson compilation... would anyone notice (apart from my Bank Manager?) biggrin.gif "
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