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Samsung's hybrid tube amplifier, was: "For shame! What the frilly heck!"
StephenPG
post Dec 6 2012, 12:18
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Samsung insanity?

That's it, I officially give up... the world has gone mad...
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tgoose
post Dec 6 2012, 12:45
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QUOTE (StephenPG @ Dec 6 2012, 11:18) *
Samsung insanity?

That's it, I officially give up... the world has gone mad...


Apart from the implication that all digital sound waves are clipped*, I don't see a problem with the existence of such a product. Some people like the sound of tubes.


*or perhaps they are these days, given enough brickwall limiting!

This post has been edited by tgoose: Dec 6 2012, 12:46
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punkrockdude
post Dec 6 2012, 12:50
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Are they trying to make us think that a tube can alter a clipped waveform into a pure sine wave?
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Nessuno
post Dec 6 2012, 12:52
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I bet the tubes aren't actually in the signal path, but... just for the show! biggrin.gif


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StephenPG
post Dec 6 2012, 13:00
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Rectifiers?
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DonP
post Dec 6 2012, 13:58
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Do I want an amplifier that adds rich warm harmonies? A solo singer turns into a barbershop quartet?
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soundping
post Dec 6 2012, 16:37
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No different than headphones that amplify bass.
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BFG
post Dec 6 2012, 16:50
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I can hook this up to my 1950s-era room-sized computer! Now I just need to find some way to transfer a media player's program to punch cards...

This post has been edited by BFG: Dec 6 2012, 16:50
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hidn
post Dec 6 2012, 17:16
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This should mean smeared treble. In this way, the sound and seems soft.
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greynol
post Dec 6 2012, 17:27
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QUOTE (soundping @ Dec 6 2012, 07:37) *
No different than headphones that amplify bass.

First off, how do you know that?

Second, assuming there is in fact added coloration it isn't like you get to pick and choose which components contribute, or do you? If you can't then are you then suggesting that color from the device added to the color of your headphones or speakers is even better from color from your headphones or speakers?

What is interesting to note is that based on the information I've gleaned from one of the products online, I'd like to know how two tubes are supposed to "help" more than two channels. Since they are dual-triode you could use them on four channels, but you have to wonder about cross-talk performance. The product I saw was an integrated Blue-ray player (7.1 channel home theater in a box).

This post has been edited by greynol: Dec 6 2012, 21:29


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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Dec 6 2012, 18:03
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QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Dec 6 2012, 06:50) *
Are they trying to make us think that a tube can alter a clipped waveform into a pure sine wave?


Tubes can, and so can analog tape machines. It takes a frequency-dependent nonlinearity with certain parameters.
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mzil
post Dec 6 2012, 19:34
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So for a sound reproduction system for your room, that you dock your ipod into, vacuum tubes "help", but having only a fixed, roughly 12 inches of spacing between your left and right speakers' acoustical centers adequately provides "stereophonic" sound? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Mono lives!
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punkrockdude
post Dec 6 2012, 20:19
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QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Dec 6 2012, 18:03) *
QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Dec 6 2012, 06:50) *
Are they trying to make us think that a tube can alter a clipped waveform into a pure sine wave?


Tubes can, and so can analog tape machines. It takes a frequency-dependent nonlinearity with certain parameters.
Can they really remove ovetones that clipped signals contain?
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soundping
post Dec 7 2012, 14:43
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QUOTE (greynol @ Dec 6 2012, 11:27) *
QUOTE (soundping @ Dec 6 2012, 07:37) *
No different than headphones that amplify bass.

First off, how do you know that?

Second, assuming there is in fact added coloration it isn't like you get to pick and choose which components contribute, or do you? If you can't then are you then suggesting that color from the device added to the color of your headphones or speakers is even better from color from your headphones or speakers?

What is interesting to note is that based on the information I've gleaned from one of the products online, I'd like to know how two tubes are supposed to "help" more than two channels. Since they are dual-triode you could use them on four channels, but you have to wonder about cross-talk performance. The product I saw was an integrated Blue-ray player (7.1 channel home theater in a box).

My 'obvious' point is the original sound is be altered.
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Dec 7 2012, 15:01
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QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Dec 6 2012, 14:19) *
QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Dec 6 2012, 18:03) *
QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Dec 6 2012, 06:50) *
Are they trying to make us think that a tube can alter a clipped waveform into a pure sine wave?


Tubes can, and so can analog tape machines. It takes a frequency-dependent nonlinearity with certain parameters.
Can they really remove ovetones that clipped signals contain?


Yes.

Let's say that a 10 volt RMS signal is clipped at +/- 5 volts peak with a sharp cutoff. This is going to give you square wave-like clipping with the harmonics falling off in the pattern we see with square waves. There will be a goodly amount of higher order harmonics.

Let's say that we then add a soft clipping circuit that starts at 2 volts and gently cuts off by 4.9 volts. There will be far more actual distortion, but it will tend to be composes of lower order harmonics that are more likely to be masked by the music itself.
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DonP
post Dec 7 2012, 15:22
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QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Dec 7 2012, 09:01) *
QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Dec 6 2012, 14:19) *
QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Dec 6 2012, 18:03) *
QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Dec 6 2012, 06:50) *
Are they trying to make us think that a tube can alter a clipped waveform into a pure sine wave?


Can they really remove ovetones that clipped signals contain?


Yes.

Let's say that a 10 volt RMS signal is clipped at +/- 5 volts peak with a sharp cutoff. This is going to give you square wave-like clipping with the harmonics falling off in the pattern we see with square waves. There will be a goodly amount of higher order harmonics.

Let's say that we then add a soft clipping circuit that starts at 2 volts and gently cuts off by 4.9 volts. There will be far more actual distortion, but it will tend to be composes of lower order harmonics that are more likely to be masked by the music itself.


Your description doesn't tell me "pure sine wave," and if set up this way will wreck havoc on a more well behaved signal, say, bass notes of 4 volts and mid & highs of 1 volt. Might be fair to say that a good signal level wouldn't push the soft clipping so much either.

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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Dec 7 2012, 16:58
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QUOTE (DonP @ Dec 7 2012, 09:22) *
QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Dec 7 2012, 09:01) *
QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Dec 6 2012, 14:19) *
QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Dec 6 2012, 18:03) *
QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Dec 6 2012, 06:50) *
Are they trying to make us think that a tube can alter a clipped waveform into a pure sine wave?


Can they really remove ovetones that clipped signals contain?


Yes.

Let's say that a 10 volt RMS signal is clipped at +/- 5 volts peak with a sharp cutoff. This is going to give you square wave-like clipping with the harmonics falling off in the pattern we see with square waves. There will be a goodly amount of higher order harmonics.

Let's say that we then add a soft clipping circuit that starts at 2 volts and gently cuts off by 4.9 volts. There will be far more actual distortion, but it will tend to be composes of lower order harmonics that are more likely to be masked by the music itself.


Your description doesn't tell me "pure sine wave,"


No, I meant music.

QUOTE
and if set up this way will wreck havoc on a more well behaved signal, say, bass notes of 4 volts and mid & highs of 1 volt.


You may be surprised with what happens in the real world, particularly with a real analog tape machine.


QUOTE
Might be fair to say that a good signal level wouldn't push the soft clipping so much either.



Good signal levels aren't clipped in the least, right? ;-)

I thought we were in the dump trying to fish out a rough meal. ;-)
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mzil
post Dec 7 2012, 17:40
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QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Dec 6 2012, 07:50) *
Are they trying to make us think that a tube can alter a clipped waveform into a pure sine wave?

I take that to mean, parapharsed, "Can they take a pre-distorted, clipped waveform signal and change it back into the clean, pure sine wave that it once was?"

The answer to that is "no".

Granted, some circuits distort in a more graceful manner than others, which might be more pleasing to the ear, however you can't take a pre-distorted signal and truly fix it by passing it through such a circuit.

This post has been edited by mzil: Dec 7 2012, 17:42
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