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Best Quality for Lossy Encoding of Audiobooks?
encoder
post Nov 27 2012, 15:26
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Obviously if I don't want FLAC. But I also don't want it to be (much) distinguishable from the original. Storage space is not really an issue nowadays. What do you use? MP3 or OGG file format? Which settings? Which software? I have Fre:Ac. I would prefer an easy to use Windows solution, no command lines. What settings to use?

By the way what is the best audio grabber program nowadays? Is it still EAC? I'm really out of this game lately. smile.gif

Oh, and how to create separate audio tracks for gapless playback on any basic player? I just see your Wiki... There used to be a command line solution to cut the audio files at the block's ends so every simple player can play 'em back gaplessly. It worked for MP3. Does it work for OGG?

Thanks!

This post has been edited by encoder: Nov 27 2012, 15:33
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encoder
post Nov 28 2012, 13:53
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Thanks for the info! This Opus thing looks interesting. It's 1.01, is it already the best (for music as well)? Will my 1st gen. nonRockboxed Sansa clip play it if I somehow "make it" to an OGG? I just didn't bother to Rockbox it. Default is king, ain't it?

Most important: what bitrate to use for Opus for audiobook (and music)? Let's say I am used to 256-320k MP3s.

As for ripping CDs: I have all the time in the world and I prefer the bit accurate method.

Will the gapless playback work on Opus as well? Where can I read more about this newer method of gapless? Google didn't help.
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jensend
post Nov 28 2012, 18:23
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encoder: Yes, Opus is also somewhat better than the competition (AAC/Vorbis) for music, though not by as large a margin.

Being "used to 256-320k MP3s" doesn't give us enough information to tell you where your optimal point on the bitrate vs quality curve is. If you've been using a modern high-quality MP3 encoder like recent versions of LAME, did a whole lot of blind listening tests, and decided you really needed to encode MP3s at >256kbps even when you're using a space-constrained portable player like the original Clip, that would mean you're more sensitive to coding artifacts than just about anyone on the planet (or that there are only one dozen CDs you will ever want to listen to). The normal recommendation for MP3 stereo music using LAME is -V2 (~190kbps) for very sensitive listening without storage constraints and -V4 (~165 kbps) or lower for portable use.

For Opus, which is considerably better than MP3, I'd recommend you start by encoding one audiobook at 24kbps and some stereo music at 96kbps, do a little listening test (possibly using Foobar2000's ABX tool), and use that information to make a decision on how to encode your whole collection. Depending on your tastes you might want to go as high as 32kbps for audiobooks and 128kbps for music, but I don't think you'll want to go above that for a portable player.

DonP, I think you'll find that increasing the bitrate from 10kbps to 12kbps, which gives mediumband (6kHz) rather than narrowband (4kHz) audio bandwidth, will make your audiobooks sound considerably better without much of a bitrate change. Since most of the energy in sibilants (s-sounds etc) is around 4-6kHz, and since there's energy in that range even for vowels, the quality difference between narrowband and mediumband speech is quite large, probably just as large as the quality difference between mediumband and the superwideband you get at 22kbps.
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DonP
post Nov 28 2012, 19:16
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QUOTE (jensend @ Nov 28 2012, 13:23) *
encoder: Yes, Opus is also somewhat better than the competition (AAC/Vorbis) for music, though not by as large a margin.

DonP, I think you'll find that increasing the bitrate from 10kbps to 12kbps, which gives mediumband (6kHz) rather than narrowband (4kHz) audio bandwidth, will make your audiobooks sound considerably better without much of a bitrate change. Since most of the energy in sibilants (s-sounds etc) is around 4-6kHz, and since there's energy in that range even for vowels, the quality difference between narrowband and mediumband speech is quite large, probably just as large as the quality difference between mediumband and the superwideband you get at 22kbps.


I'll give that a shot. 10 really sounds ok to me though.. probably just low subjective requirements for plain speech.

I encoded some acoustic guitar music at 64kb/s and it just sounded wrong.. a little mushy. ABX was 10/10 and I could be pretty sure which was which after listening to only one of X OR Y and not bothering with A and B. I could also ABX that track 100% with vorbis q=0 (64kb), but with considerably more effort. 150 kb/s Opus is so far transparent to me.

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IgorC
post Nov 28 2012, 19:27
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QUOTE (DonP @ Nov 28 2012, 15:16) *
I encoded some acoustic guitar music at 64kb/s and it just sounded wrong.. a little mushy.

1.0.1 is actually restricted VBR. Tonality (guitar as well) is an issue for 1.0.1
Maybe You will want to try the last experimental branch which is pretty good (especially for tonality) at this point .

This post has been edited by IgorC: Nov 28 2012, 19:29
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Posts in this topic
- encoder   Best Quality for Lossy Encoding of Audiobooks?   Nov 27 2012, 15:26
- - eahm   You can hear difference if you convert in 64kbps, ...   Nov 27 2012, 15:45
- - Dynamic   QUOTE (encoder @ Nov 27 2012, 14:26) By t...   Nov 27 2012, 18:06
- - DonP   Most of the books on my portable I have in speex. ...   Nov 28 2012, 03:35
- - jensend   As far as the quality-bitrate tradeoff goes, Opus ...   Nov 28 2012, 05:34
|- - DonP   QUOTE (jensend @ Nov 28 2012, 00:34) As f...   Nov 28 2012, 16:04
|- - Dynamic   I agree that at its speech-codec settings (when it...   Nov 28 2012, 19:13
- - encoder   Thanks for the info! This Opus thing looks int...   Nov 28 2012, 13:53
|- - jensend   encoder: Yes, Opus is also somewhat better than th...   Nov 28 2012, 18:23
|- - DonP   QUOTE (jensend @ Nov 28 2012, 13:23) enco...   Nov 28 2012, 19:16
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (DonP @ Nov 28 2012, 15:16) I encod...   Nov 28 2012, 19:27
|- - DonP   QUOTE (IgorC @ Nov 28 2012, 14:27) 1.0.1 ...   Nov 28 2012, 20:32
- - marc2003   QUOTE Default is king, ain't it? no. the ...   Nov 28 2012, 14:53
- - Seren   10kb/s for music I wonder the day this becomes ...   Nov 28 2012, 16:26
- - eahm   10kb/s so 1.25KB/s? For my previous post, of cour...   Nov 28 2012, 16:37
- - eahm   Just tested AAC Apple True VBR Q18 (~75kbps) (the ...   Nov 28 2012, 19:36
|- - eahm   QUOTE (eahm @ Nov 28 2012, 11:36) Just te...   Dec 5 2012, 00:07
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (eahm @ Dec 4 2012, 20:07) Opus (0....   Dec 5 2012, 03:04
- - jensend   A brief bit about Opus's ability to deal with ...   Nov 28 2012, 19:50
- - DonP   For speech, 12 kb/s opus is working fine on the po...   Nov 30 2012, 19:21
|- - jensend   QUOTE (DonP @ Nov 30 2012, 11:21) I hope ...   Dec 1 2012, 01:31
- - eahm   Thanks IgorC. AAC-LC True VBR (qaac/Apple) -V9 (~...   Dec 5 2012, 06:39
- - IgorC   It is recommended to use ABR instead of VBR for e...   Dec 5 2012, 15:01
- - eahm   I don't test or keep track of MP3 too much, I...   Dec 5 2012, 18:29


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