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Test your soundcard for clipping, with this sample
fragtal
post May 27 2003, 12:42
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Does somebody have .flac version of this sample or can somebody recommend a small ape winamp plugin?

thanks, fragtal


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tigre
post May 27 2003, 12:49
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udial.flac


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fragtal
post May 27 2003, 12:52
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QUOTE (tigre @ May 27 2003 - 01:49 PM)

thanks! that was quick ohmy.gif


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Halcyon
post May 27 2003, 13:15
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Garf,

Why is this sample theoretical? Can you elaborate? I'm not claiming it's not, but I'm interested in your opinion. Further, why would it result in blown tweeters? Do you think that aliasing intermodulation causing D/A-converters are so commonplace or is ther another reason? I'm willing to learn more.

Also, does anybody know the source of this sample?

Just out of curiosity I burned the sample to an audio cd and tried playback on my portable Panasonic SL-CT780 and my DVD player Philips SA-962. Panasonic has audible noise (static) in burst over the sample. Philips SA-962 plays back the sample faultlessly (at least to my ear).

This reminds me of another interesting sample I have on Digital Recordings' "CD-Check" cd. It also produces audible static type noise on most sound cards and on my Panasonic portable CD-player.

I can upload that, if anybody's interested.

I also tried the DirectSound Resampling plugin v.2.2.6 for Winamp 2.x and the results remain the same: horrible distortion regardless of volume settings.

Regards,
Halcyon

PS Monkey's Audio Winamp 2.xx plug-in without the full Ape 3.97 download (only 116 kB):

http://www.geocities.com/feedthedead/in_ape.zip

This post has been edited by Halcyon: May 27 2003, 13:36
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tigre
post May 27 2003, 14:10
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QUOTE (Halcyon @ May 27 2003 - 04:15 AM)
Why is this sample theoretical?

It contains a loud (somewhere between 0 and -1 dB I'd say) ~20000 Hz modulated sine tone. The audible dialing sounds are much lower volume, otherwise the combination of both would cause cipping in the file (not only during playback). So even if for some reason "real" music would contain similar high frequency tones, they'll hardly be louder than the audible signal (Why should anyone want to do this?* It'd just waste dynamic range).

QUOTE
Further, why would it result in blown tweeters?

If you set playback volume (of the relatively low volume audible tones) to a "normal" level the (almost) inaudible loud tone will be played back at a verry uncommon level, so tweeters might overheat ...

QUOTE
Also, does anybody know the source of this sample?

I guess CoolEdit (Pro) was used to create it. It can create DTMF signals and modulated sines (and mix both).
______________________
* I think, high pitched loud tones or noise could be used as kind of CD copy protection. Let's discuss this in another thread. ATM I'm creating some samples and will start the thread when I'm finished ...
[edit]
Done. High pitched noise = copy protection, against PC playback, mp3, lossless ...
[/edit]

This post has been edited by tigre: May 27 2003, 15:33


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LPTB
post May 27 2003, 15:15
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Ok I did a test at work, with SoundMax integrated chipset on an intel board (don't know the exact version of the chipset) and KSC-35 headphones:

Results (using foobar), on all the tests setting the system volume to lower value didn't help in the sense that it only lowers the volume but the distortion is still there:
No SSRC: Dialing sound with horrific ultrasonic distortions (really loud)
SSRC @44100: same as above
SSRC @48000: Dialing sound with barely audible ultrasonic distortion (it now hides at higher ranges ~16khz+), however being barely audible didn't help since it still gave me headaches.

SSRC's slow/fast, 64/32bit modes didn't help in any variation. Using Soft clipping limiter made things way worse.
Same results apply to all three output methods (kernel, DirectSound and WaveOut).

So you won't catch me listening to this sample on the setup ever again!

(shitty soundcards)

EDIT: Actually this soundcard is so bad that Ella Fitzgerald sounds shrill on it (Ella is anything but shrill)

This post has been edited by LPTB: May 27 2003, 15:20
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JEN
post May 27 2003, 15:16
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Wow, that gave me a headache huh.gif

I can hear clicking, and humming. I did not apply any resampling !
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Jan S.
post May 27 2003, 15:42
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QUOTE (JEN @ May 27 2003 - 04:16 PM)
Wow, that gave me a headache  huh.gif

I can hear clicking, and humming.  I did not apply any resampling !

Then maybe you should!
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fragtal
post May 27 2003, 16:13
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I have to pull down the master-volume (of the Crative Mixer)to one third and then this strange sound appears decent without distorsion or so. I'm using Winamp2.81 with DirectSoundOutput2.26 SSRC without resampling. The Audigy 2 Platinum upsamples to 96kHz.

I have not kept the master volume at this low level. When I try to listen to a not replaygained dvd-ogm-rip with Sennheiser HD600 Headphones I have to set the volume of the Headphone amp of my soundcard to maximum and even then it's sometimes hard to understand.

I hear up to 15kHz but sadly i couldn't make this fabulous experience of hearing 19kHz sine tones... sad.gif


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JEN
post May 27 2003, 16:16
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OK, I tried it with resampling and here are the results

8000 - even crapper quality, no humming or aliens
11025 - crapper quality, no humming or aliens
16000 - crap quality, no humming or aliens
22050 - a bit more higher pitch
24000 - perfect, but slightly higher pitch
32000 - sounds perfect
44100 - no clipping, humming and louder aliens
48000 - no clipping, but is humming and alien sound!
64000 - whistling sound?
88200 - humming, aliet, ambulance??
96000 - humming with slight alien sound

Does this mean I have a crap sound card?
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ViPER1313
post May 27 2003, 16:27
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Would anyone be willing to take the sweep.wav sample, resample it to 48000hz, and then normalize that 48000hz file to 100% ? I bet you will get the alien sounds as well. This was the test that I used a few months ago to see how high I could set the volume sliders on my SB-Live card. When I get home, I will see how my settings hold up against this sample.......
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Sachankara
post May 27 2003, 17:11
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Ehh... What are you supposed to hear? It sounds like telephone ringing using Winamp 2.81 and a Hercules Fortissimo III 7.1 sound card at 44.1kHz...
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grbmusic
post May 27 2003, 17:20
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Jan S. you should advice that take the test with this sample with very care. Yesterday when I test mu sound card in my home theather system (jbl speakers around $1000), 2 tweeters of the satelites were fried sad.gif , and I crying now sad.gif . I can't buy a brand new, here in my country $1000 is exactly that I get for 6 month in my job, very expensive for me. And it seems to I can't repaired it too. sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif . Now I can listen music until about 8 khz only, sounds like shitty. My system never will sounds transparent like before sad.gif . So guys, I don't wish that this happen with any of us. Take care!!!


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MPC: --quality 10 --xlevel (v. 1.15s) (archive/transcoding)
MP3: LAME 3.96.1 --preset standard (daily listening/portable)
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sony666
post May 27 2003, 17:41
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QUOTE (grbmusic @ May 27 2003 - 05:20 PM)
Jan S. you should advice that take the test with this sample with very care. Yesterday when I test mu sound card in my home theather system (jbl speakers around $1000), 2 tweeters of the satelites were fried  sad.gif , and I crying now  sad.gif . I can't buy a brand new, here in my country $1000 is exactly that I get for 6 month in my job, very expensive for me. And it seems to I can't repaired it too.  sad.gif  sad.gif  sad.gif . Now I can listen music until about 8 khz only, sounds like shitty. My system never will sounds transparent like before  sad.gif . So guys, I don't wish that this happen with any of us. Take care!!!

sorry to read that sad.gif
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LPTB
post May 27 2003, 18:01
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@grbmusic bummer man, sorry for your speakers...

I tried the same sample with my SBlive 5.1; The best setting (not surprisingly) was with SSRC at 48000Hz but even at this setting I could still hear some weird ambulance in the background (not like the super annoying ultrasonic I've experienced with SoundMAX) but weird all the same; With both cards I can't make it to sound like tigre's mpc.
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JeanLuc
post May 27 2003, 18:25
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Two chains in my system, both fed by a TerraTec EWX 24/96 ...

1. Digital chain ... EWX 24/96 (Wav Play Digital) - 10m Toslink cable - Sony MD Recorder MDS-JE700 as DAC - Sennheiser HD600

2. Analog chain ... EWX 24/96 (Wav Play Analog) - Normal Cinch cable - Denon PMA-700V Stereo Amp (10 years old) - Sennheiser HD 600

Used both SoundForge 6.0 and WinAmp 2.91 (out_ds.dll 2.2.6) for PB at 44,1 kHz ... no audible artifacts whatsoever ...

Seems that my Soundcard's DAC is pretty good with my current settings ... ph34r.gif


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tigre
post May 27 2003, 18:49
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QUOTE (Sachankara @ May 27 2003 - 08:11 AM)
Ehh... What are you supposed to hear? It sounds like telephone ringing using Winamp 2.81 and a Hercules Fortissimo III 7.1 sound card at 44.1kHz...

Pure telephone dialing sounds without anything else ...

Earlier in this thread I provided samples about what it's supposed to sound and what it's not


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outscape
post May 27 2003, 18:52
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QUOTE (grbmusic @ May 27 2003 - 11:20 AM)
Jan S. you should advice that take the test with this sample with very care. Yesterday when I test mu sound card in my home theather system (jbl speakers around $1000), 2 tweeters of the satelites were fried  sad.gif , and I crying now  sad.gif . I can't buy a brand new, here in my country $1000 is exactly that I get for 6 month in my job, very expensive for me. And it seems to I can't repaired it too.  sad.gif  sad.gif  sad.gif . Now I can listen music until about 8 khz only, sounds like shitty. My system never will sounds transparent like before  sad.gif . So guys, I don't wish that this happen with any of us. Take care!!!

i'm very sorry about your speakers sad.gif

surely the intent of this test was not to damage people's equipment

did you read the warnings posted by garf and pio?


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LPTB
post May 27 2003, 18:53
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@tigre
About the sample you provided, I can hear quite a lot of background noise about 1.5 seconds after the start, why is that?
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tigre
post May 27 2003, 19:07
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Which one?


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LPTB
post May 27 2003, 19:28
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The mpc sample you provided named correct.mpc.
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Pio2001
post May 27 2003, 19:45
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QUOTE (fragtal @ May 27 2003 - 06:13 PM)
I hear up to 15kHz but sadly i couldn't make this fabulous experience of hearing 19kHz sine tones... sad.gif

My HD-600 were plugged into a 80W amplifier.

Here are my results :

Windows XP, Winamp 2.90 (the Windows version might have an importance)

Marian Marc 2 soundcard :

WaveOut - Digital out : perfect
WaveOut - Analog out : perfect
DirectSound - Digital out emulated : No artifacts, but an incredible background noise, like with any other music (the Direct Sound support for this card seems broken with WinXP)
DirectSound - Analog out emulated : Same background noise, but with a police car yelling UIUIUIUIUI !

SoundBlaster SB 64 PCI V :
WaveOut : high pitched artifact, and clipping
Directsound : high pitched artifact, but no clipping
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tigre
post May 27 2003, 19:52
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QUOTE (LPTB @ May 27 2003 - 10:28 AM)
The mpc sample you provided named correct.mpc.

correct.flac

form 0.7 - 2.6 sec. there's some background noise that isn't there during the rest of the sample but that's also the case in the original sample. If it's less than in the .mpc file it could be a problem with your mpc decoder/playback. Here both (.mpc and .flac) sound the same.


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LPTB
post May 27 2003, 20:02
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QUOTE
If it's less than in the .mpc file it could be a problem with your mpc decoder/playback. Here both (.mpc and .flac) sound the same.

That's weird because I'm using foobar2000 for palyback and it doesn't have problems with mpc playbak AFAIK. BTW I decompressed the flac it it sound ok (without noise) as opposed to the mpc. What soundcard do you use?

EDIT: I just tried the mpc again, the problem was that it had replaygain that somehow changed the sound once I removed it the two samples sounded the same (with background noise (low))

This post has been edited by LPTB: May 27 2003, 20:12
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grbmusic
post May 27 2003, 23:37
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QUOTE (LPTB @ May 27 2003 - 02:01 PM)
I tried the same sample with my SBlive 5.1; The best setting (not surprisingly) was with SSRC at 48000Hz but even at this setting I could still hear some weird ambulance in the background (not like the super annoying ultrasonic I've experienced with SoundMAX) but weird all the same; With both cards I can't make it to sound like tigre's mpc.

The same here with my SB 512 PCI and with my onboard (SIS 710) sounds worst.
Still I'm crying for my speakers sad.gif . Thanks of God I can get brand new tweeters (JBL Titanium) in my country but it's expensive yet, with a bit of luck I will can buy them the next month, only 2 of 5 weren fried rolleyes.gif


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MP3: LAME 3.96.1 --preset standard (daily listening/portable)
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