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Test your soundcard for clipping, with this sample
Jan S.
post May 26 2003, 19:57
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For everybody fighting with occasional clipping (or perfectionists wanting to test everything) you should try the attached sample, udial.

Testing:
  • play the sample in your favourite player (decoded or not, having disabled all DSPs and EQs that can interfere)
  • if the output sounds weird at any time you should:
    • lower the output vol. in your soundcard config (should be the speaker icon in your system tray).
    • For some soundcards 48kHz is better (audigy 2 etc.).
    • lower the vol. till the sample doesn't sound weird at any time.
The output will sound really weird if your settings clip.
Your output can occasional clip without you knowing/hearing it. But for us perfectionists this will theoretically give a better quality output.

ATTENTION: Play this sample at a low volume anytime, even if you hear nothing special! It can be very harmful to equipment and/or your ears.
It's strongly recommended to use some very cheap (PC) speakers if you want to test this,
otherwise you might really ruin your tweeters (it has happened several times already).

Attached File(s)
Attached File  udial.zip ( 217.55K ) Number of downloads: 20580
 
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DickD
post Jun 2 2003, 14:36
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QUOTE (JonPike @ Jun 1 2003 - 01:48 AM)
OK...  turning off Replaygain killed the laser noises.  Is this what you mean by "turning on Foobar's clipping prevention"?


No, I meant the "use peak info" checkbox being checked.

QUOTE
I never changed it before,  it was set to "use album gain"  and "use peak info..." checkbox was checked. Isn't the checkbox feature supposed to detect the highest peak and then use that as a maximum? It can't detect a 19Khz (or whatever that high tone is) tone?

I had no other kind of limiter or other DSP,  just the Attenuator (don't know what this is, if not the volume control) and the Resampler, which I did have set to 48Khz for most of my tests,  since I have a Audigy 1.


The latest FB2K (v0.666) does need you to scan the track for ReplayGain (which includes peak info) to apply any changes. The peak info is read directly from the sample values in the file, so it doesn't matter what frequency it is. It should measure the peak values accurately and therefore apply almost no gain (because the file is about to clip). I wonder if your peak value information was corrupted? If you right-click the file and erase the ReplayGain info, then right-click it and scan Track Gain, it ought to be OK.

Resampler could cause clipping and still be working properly, though I'd imagine it would be a very subtle amount of clipping, if any, given that.

Yes, Attenuator is the Volume Control.

Your clipping might be elsewhere - not in software, for example in the soundcard electronics or your amplifier, though the fact it didn't clip when you turned off RG seems to indicate a problem there instead.

Hardware clipping is likely to stop if you turn down the volume far enough.

QUOTE
So,  I guess Foobar's problem was completely caused by Replaygain scaling the track wrong..

Hmmm... thought I'd check this out by running no resampling and no replay gain to see the different effect of clipping and bad resampling, and Foobar just locked up.. Ok, no resampling is similar,  laser sound but quieter and raspier,  then with the replaygain changing it.

Only question I'm left with, is Replaygain supposed to catch a file like this and  use the peak info to rescale when the first pass at it still causes clipping,  like the checkbox mentions?


Yes, except that the first pass no longer scans for RG - you have to scan it manually from Foobar v0.666.

QUOTE
Maybe a second question,  did Peter ever make a resampling version past 2.2.2.3 for winamp2?  Not that I apparently have any problems with that one... 

I do noitce that Foobar now puts up the playing file when you're listening to a Shoutcast station,  but I'm still a sucker for the quick link to the homepage, and etc that you get with Winamp..


Yup, Winamp sounds very good, and rarely different from Foobar (unless you use the EQ!), so there's no imperative for many users to make the switch, and if you prefer some features, sure, stick with it.

P.S. Someone mentioned Crossfeed causing sirens. For me, Crossfeed DSP hasn't caused a problem with this sample (at 44.1 kHz).

P.P.S. I tried using FB2K to write out a 24-bit dithered 48000 Hz WAV (slow, 64 bit resampling) from this file (no noise shaping) and noted that the suggested track gain of the new file was 1 dB higher (19.2 dB). The peak value was now 1.000000, much as expected. Should the RG estimate change this much with good resampling?
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Posts in this topic
- Jan S.   Test your soundcard for clipping   May 26 2003, 19:57
- - grbmusic   I'll try it and then I tell about it!...   May 26 2003, 20:03
- - grbmusic   It's a kind of joke??? With foobar is imposibl...   May 26 2003, 20:19
- - atici   I listened to it OK with all my DSP plugins off, i...   May 26 2003, 20:25
- - Jan S.   QUOTE (grbmusic @ May 26 2003 - 09:19 PM)It...   May 26 2003, 20:26
- - Jan S.   QUOTE (atici @ May 26 2003 - 09:25 PM)it soun...   May 26 2003, 20:28
- - grbmusic   QUOTE (Jan S. @ May 26 2003 - 04:26 PM)what y...   May 26 2003, 20:44
- - boojum   I am not sure about the distortion. I do get the ...   May 26 2003, 20:54
- - Pio2001   19.5 kHz ! At full power in headphones, I hea...   May 26 2003, 21:47
- - Thikasabrik   Well... it looks as if it isn't clipping for m...   May 26 2003, 22:44
- - ben   Yeah, I just clipped my ears with the 19.5khz tone...   May 26 2003, 23:08
- - outscape   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ May 26 2003 - 03:47 PM)19.5 ...   May 27 2003, 03:25
- - Rizban76   I suppose my sound card is really screwed up. I ca...   May 27 2003, 04:27
- - fewtch   MonkeysAudio is so annoying. No separate WinAMP p...   May 27 2003, 04:45
- - Mr. Mulder   If you give me an email address I cand send you ...   May 27 2003, 07:29
- - anza   When I have foobars resampler on and set to 48kHz ...   May 27 2003, 07:58
- - LPTB   QUOTE I tried with DirectSound and I got nearly sa...   May 27 2003, 08:08
- - KikeG   Ugh! I hear too annoying ultra-high pitched to...   May 27 2003, 08:13
- - Mac   Ugh, you should put a warning when you post sample...   May 27 2003, 08:30
- - freakngoat   That is the craziest sample ever. How does it work...   May 27 2003, 08:45
- - Halcyon   What a useful sample! My results for Audigy 2...   May 27 2003, 09:29
- - Garf   QUOTE (Halcyon @ May 27 2003 - 10:29 AM)Final...   May 27 2003, 10:23
- - tigre   Great work! I knew before that my onboard VIA ...   May 27 2003, 10:59
- - Rasi   the squirling reminds me of a bird singing.... gue...   May 27 2003, 11:01
- - Gabriel   On this computer I get a birdy sound, depending on...   May 27 2003, 11:25
- - fragtal   Does somebody have .flac version of this sample or...   May 27 2003, 12:42
- - tigre   udial.flac   May 27 2003, 12:49
- - fragtal   QUOTE (tigre @ May 27 2003 - 01:49 PM)udial.f...   May 27 2003, 12:52
- - Halcyon   Garf, Why is this sample theoretical? Can you ela...   May 27 2003, 13:15
- - tigre   QUOTE (Halcyon @ May 27 2003 - 04:15 AM)Why i...   May 27 2003, 14:10
- - LPTB   Ok I did a test at work, with SoundMax integrated ...   May 27 2003, 15:15
- - JEN   Wow, that gave me a headache I can hear clicki...   May 27 2003, 15:16
- - Jan S.   QUOTE (JEN @ May 27 2003 - 04:16 PM)Wow, that...   May 27 2003, 15:42
- - fragtal   I have to pull down the master-volume (of the Crat...   May 27 2003, 16:13
- - JEN   OK, I tried it with resampling and here are the r...   May 27 2003, 16:16
- - ViPER1313   Would anyone be willing to take the sweep.wav samp...   May 27 2003, 16:27
- - Sachankara   Ehh... What are you supposed to hear? It sounds li...   May 27 2003, 17:11
- - grbmusic   Jan S. you should advice that take the test with t...   May 27 2003, 17:20
- - sony666   QUOTE (grbmusic @ May 27 2003 - 05:20 PM)Jan ...   May 27 2003, 17:41
- - LPTB   @grbmusic bummer man, sorry for your speakers... ...   May 27 2003, 18:01
- - JeanLuc   Two chains in my system, both fed by a TerraTec EW...   May 27 2003, 18:25
- - tigre   QUOTE (Sachankara @ May 27 2003 - 08:11 AM)Eh...   May 27 2003, 18:49
- - outscape   QUOTE (grbmusic @ May 27 2003 - 11:20 AM)Jan ...   May 27 2003, 18:52
- - LPTB   @tigre About the sample you provided, I can hear q...   May 27 2003, 18:53
- - tigre   Which one?   May 27 2003, 19:07
- - LPTB   The mpc sample you provided named correct.mpc.   May 27 2003, 19:28
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (fragtal @ May 27 2003 - 06:13 PM)I hea...   May 27 2003, 19:45
- - tigre   QUOTE (LPTB @ May 27 2003 - 10:28 AM)The mpc ...   May 27 2003, 19:52
- - LPTB   QUOTE If it's less than in the .mpc file it co...   May 27 2003, 20:02
- - grbmusic   QUOTE (LPTB @ May 27 2003 - 02:01 PM)I tried ...   May 27 2003, 23:37
- - grbmusic   QUOTE (outscape @ May 27 2003 - 02:52 PM)did ...   May 27 2003, 23:40
- - LoKi128   Well, tested with Winamp and my shitty on-board so...   May 28 2003, 01:15
- - KikeG   I tested again at home with my Audiophile, and hea...   May 28 2003, 09:25
- - Pio2001   THIS is a killer sample QUOTE (KikeG @ Ma...   May 28 2003, 11:59
- - lucpes   M-Audio Delta 410 card... dial tone + very high pi...   May 28 2003, 12:38
- - 2Bdecided   In fact, there isn't a hard cut off limit in h...   May 28 2003, 12:42
- - Moitah   When using Winamp's DirectSound plugin (v2.2.6...   May 28 2003, 14:18
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (grbmusic @ May 27 2003 - 10:37 PM)QUOT...   May 28 2003, 15:16
- - jues   Soundcard: Delta 410. Christ that hurt - yeah, pu...   May 28 2003, 15:37
- - DickD   I have a Win NT4.0 machine with a 'Pro16V-A Pn...   May 28 2003, 16:28
- - Pio2001   This is a picture of the aliases that can appear w...   May 28 2003, 18:33
- - fragtal   I just downloaded the correct.flac and I'm rea...   May 28 2003, 19:46
- - ViPER1313   Sounds fine to me on my SB-Live value w/ 48khz SSR...   May 28 2003, 20:24
- - atici   QUOTE (lucpes @ May 28 2003 - 06:38 AM)M-Audi...   May 28 2003, 20:39
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (ViPER1313 @ May 28 2003 - 10:24 PM)the...   May 28 2003, 20:50
- - kritip   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ May 28 2003 - 08:50 PM)QUOTE...   May 28 2003, 22:32
- - Stuv   Quite interesting sample this one. All ASIO, Wave ...   May 28 2003, 23:56
- - ViPER1313   QUOTE the sweep is more through and wont hurt your...   May 29 2003, 04:23
- - Halcyon   A quick note about Creative cards and audible arti...   May 29 2003, 09:09
- - KikeG   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ May 28 2003 - 08:50 PM)You s...   May 29 2003, 09:37
- - DickD   QUOTE (kritip @ May 28 2003 - 10:32 PM)I real...   May 29 2003, 13:27
- - mrosscook   I have an SB Live card and Harman-Kardon desktop s...   May 29 2003, 14:57
- - LPTB   KikeG, Halcyon You're both correct this is exa...   May 29 2003, 15:03
- - Pio2001   I remember people saying their SB live was incredi...   May 29 2003, 19:58
- - JonPike   Huh.. interesting. On XP here, can't rememb...   May 30 2003, 02:43
- - grbmusic   QUOTE (JeanLuc @ May 28 2003 - 11:16 AM)Sorry...   May 30 2003, 03:21
- - Halcyon   FYI. All of my test were done under WinXP Pro SP1,...   May 30 2003, 07:51
- - DickD   QUOTE (JonPike @ May 30 2003 - 02:43 AM)Hmmmm...   May 30 2003, 13:31
- - mrosscook   Pio, Since there may be issues with the OS for Cr...   May 30 2003, 14:08
- - lucpes   QUOTE (atici @ May 28 2003 - 07:39 PM)lucpes,...   May 30 2003, 14:18
- - Thikasabrik   Well, having tested more thoroughly at different s...   May 30 2003, 14:26
- - Pio2001   Below 44.1 kHz, if the resampling is done with ant...   May 30 2003, 19:01
- - Dave Hamaker   I extracted the sample to a wav file. I looked at...   May 31 2003, 00:30
- - Pio2001   The spectrum of the clipped sample has subharmonic...   May 31 2003, 01:37
- - Dave Hamaker   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ May 30 2003 - 04:37 PM)The s...   May 31 2003, 02:46
- - Pio2001   Here are the results of two bad processes performe...   May 31 2003, 09:29
- - Halcyon   QUOTE Switching to quality 2 (on a 1-4 scale) remo...   May 31 2003, 11:37
- - indybrett   Using Foobar through a Prodigy 7.1 soundcard. Jus...   May 31 2003, 19:29
- - Dave Hamaker   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ May 31 2003 - 12:29 AM)Here ...   May 31 2003, 21:50
- - JonPike   QUOTE (DickD @ May 30 2003 - 04:31 AM)QUOTE (...   Jun 1 2003, 01:48
- - JonPike   "foobar2000 player v0.666 released Changes: ...   Jun 1 2003, 01:57
- - Differenciam   Ack. My laptop made that sound quite painful.   Jun 1 2003, 02:30
- - Chun-Yu   QUOTE (indybrett @ May 31 2003 - 01:29 PM)Usi...   Jun 1 2003, 02:46
- - Halcyon   QUOTE (Chun-Yu @ Jun 1 2003 - 03:46 AM)Q...   Jun 1 2003, 10:09
- - DickD   QUOTE (JonPike @ Jun 1 2003 - 01:48 AM)OK......   Jun 2 2003, 14:36
- - JonPike   QUOTE (DickD @ Jun 2 2003 - 05:36 AM)The late...   Jun 3 2003, 02:42
- - DickD   This post has some factual assumptions that were i...   Jun 3 2003, 10:23
- - Garf   FB2K ditherer and noiseshaper should never cause c...   Jun 3 2003, 10:32
- - DickD   Thanks for the informative reply, Garf. I'll g...   Jun 3 2003, 11:34
- - Halcyon   I need help. I have tried everything that I can t...   Jun 3 2003, 13:53
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