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Beatles remasters soon available on vinyl
2Bdecided
post Sep 28 2012, 11:35
Post #1


ReplayGain developer


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Stereo 12th / 13th November...
http://thebeatles.com/#/news/Vinyl

Mono coming in 2013.


I'm just waiting for the first claim of how much better they sound than the CDs.

For me, the only vaguely interesting thing is whether these will be cut without peak limiting. Given that they applied the same peak limiting to the 24-bit ultra-expensive USB apple release, I doubt we'll escape it here.


However, it'll (hopefully!) be a much cheaper way of owning and playing Beatles vinyl than tracking down originals, and they'll sound better than most of the 1988 vinyl remasters. (Though for Help and Rubber Soul, they'll be the same masters!). The Beatles website is mostly selling the "experience" of playing vinyl, rather than any actual sonic superiority. How strange for a vinyl press release to be TOS 8 compliant!

Cheers,
David.

P.S. and so it starts...
QUOTE
linuxglobe on 27th Sep 12: “I just want to own Sgt. Pepper and Abbey Road on audiophile 180 gram vinyl; I have a usb turntable, easily import into my iPhone! I *HEART* Los Beatles!!! biggrin.gif @MarkusMcLaughln
Yeah, 'cause obviously...
digital file > vinyl stamper > vinyl > USB turntable(!!!!) > iTunes > iPhone
will sound better than
digital file > CD > iTunes > iPhone!

This post has been edited by 2Bdecided: Sep 28 2012, 11:35
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2Bdecided
post Oct 1 2012, 10:46
Post #2


ReplayGain developer


Group: Developer
Posts: 5167
Joined: 5-November 01
From: Yorkshire, UK
Member No.: 409



It's nice they aren't including the peak limiting, it's irrelevant (IMO) that it's cut from 24-bits, and it just proves what a nasty format vinyl is that they have to selectively butcher the tracks with EQ to make them play nicely. It's worse than you might think, because they already removed what they considered "excessive" sibilance in 2009, so it sounds like they're having to go further to make nice sounding vinyl.

They did play around with EQ lots in vinyl's heyday to make cutting and tracking easier - but not using DAWs to spot-"correct" difficult moments.


Whether it's the EQ or the peak limiting or the restoration or the tape degradation, the 2009 CD issues don't sound as natural as the original UK vinyl IMO. Take a listen to various comparisons here...
http://beatledrops.com/
(HA TOS compliant - they're only short samples)
...and it seems (to my ears) that (overlooking the obvious vinyl flaws on some of those samples) the modern CDs, and the "highly regarded" MFSL issues have a "processed/EQ'd" sound that is absent from the originals. Though I think the 2009 CDs sound nice, and the new vinyl may sound slightly better or worse. Apart from the tapes ageing, it may sound better than the original vinyl - though will never be worth as much wink.gif Finding original vinyl that plays well is as much of a challenge as affording it - though early 1970s pressings are much cheaper and sound about as good to my ears.


What you can clearly hear on the 2009 CDs (and on the original vinyl, but to a lesser extent) is that this is pop music and is recorded as pop music. George Martin was quite capable of producing exquisite "audiophile" style recordings at Abbey Road in the 1960s - before, during and after the time he was working with The Beatles. But when recording The Beatles, he took a different approach - he and his engineers were trying to produce loud punchy recordings, and a sound that tried to compete with the pop productions that came out of America. He was also having to do a lot of "processing" (overdubbing, tape loops, etc etc) on primitive equipment. The result is (intentionally?) grungy - and would have been far more so on typical 1960s replay equipment. Sometimes it sounds distorted or distant, like a badly copied tape. Whereas listen to the flip side of Yellow Submarine - recorded as "classical" music - very few tape faults there.

He and his team did keep very high engineering standards, except on the last two albums, where his absence (LIB) and new equipment (AR) means they're even further away from "audiophile" quality.

IMO the "hissy" nature of 50 year old audio tape isn't really a block to enjoying audiophile-level sound reproduction - it's how well the original recordings were made, how well they've survived, and how well they're remastered that determines whether they still sound great today.
Earliest "stunning" stereo recording I have...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jump-For-Joy-Peggy.../dp/B002BEXED8/
...plenty of tape hiss in some tracks, and some strange microphone positioning on others, but still quite amazing.

Other George Martin recordings show none of the "grunginess" that plagues some Beatles tracks - when he was recording Jazz or Comedy he created recordings that sound about as good as they could. In the same years that he recorded "lo-fi" Beatles, tracks, he gave a very "Hi-Fi" treatment to The Temperance Seven and Peter Sellers etc.

In short, I don't accept that old recording have to sound bad, and I suspect some of the "badness" of the Beatles recordings is intentional.

Cheers,
David.

P.S. Yes, remixes please. Before the tapes have rotted further (though I believe they have 24/96 digital copies of all the multitracks), and before I'm too old to appreciate them. It's very strange that we have 1988 mixes of Help and Rubber Soul, but 1960s mixes of everything else as the "official" versions - H + RS weren't the worst mixes, and aren't really better in their 1988 incarnation.
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Posts in this topic
- 2Bdecided   Beatles remasters soon available on vinyl   Sep 28 2012, 11:35
- - hlloyge   Aren't the original masters bad sounding, full...   Sep 28 2012, 12:22
|- - markanini   QUOTE (hlloyge @ Sep 28 2012, 13:22) Aren...   Sep 28 2012, 15:44
|- - shakey_snake   QUOTE (hlloyge @ Sep 28 2012, 07:22) Aren...   Sep 29 2012, 03:57
|- - hlloyge   QUOTE (shakey_snake @ Sep 29 2012, 04:57)...   Sep 29 2012, 16:38
- - LordWarlock   Hiss and noise? That's still better than compr...   Sep 28 2012, 12:30
- - derty2   Official technical info on this release... QUOTE M...   Sep 28 2012, 18:35
|- - Blueshirt   QUOTE (derty2 @ Sep 28 2012, 18:35) Offic...   Sep 28 2012, 23:57
- - mzil   Notice the goal was not a nearly indistinguishable...   Sep 29 2012, 04:08
- - punkrockdude   I would like to hear the inner groove distortion t...   Sep 29 2012, 10:34
- - derty2   Recent excerpts from Steve Hoffman forums      --...   Sep 29 2012, 15:22
- - derty2   The original tapes were 'raw' copied to di...   Sep 29 2012, 17:44
- - lvqcl   QUOTE I do not understand why the engineers didn...   Sep 29 2012, 18:10
- - hlloyge   I am not into that. Sell these files, rather than ...   Sep 29 2012, 19:24
- - derty2   Your 'comment' was addressed in 2009, the ...   Sep 29 2012, 19:45
- - _if   QUOTE Having made initial test cuts, Magee pinpoin...   Sep 30 2012, 04:28
|- - Batman321   QUOTE (_if @ Sep 29 2012, 22:28) QUOTE Ha...   Sep 30 2012, 09:25
- - LithosZA   Arghh, just release an un-limited/uncompressed ver...   Sep 30 2012, 10:26
- - 2Bdecided   It's nice they aren't including the peak l...   Oct 1 2012, 10:46
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 1 2012, 10:46) Oth...   Oct 2 2012, 13:54
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (cliveb @ Oct 2 2012, 13:54) QUOTE ...   Oct 2 2012, 16:37
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 2 2012, 16:37) But...   Oct 3 2012, 09:20
- - derty2   To remix or not to remix classic albums - An inter...   Oct 1 2012, 20:01
- - RonaldDumsfeld   Looking forward to hearing the mono versions when ...   Oct 1 2012, 23:13
|- - _if   QUOTE (RonaldDumsfeld @ Oct 1 2012, 18:13...   Oct 2 2012, 06:37
- - greynol   Are you suggesting that MSFL doesn't apply EQ ...   Oct 2 2012, 07:13
|- - _if   I trust the new remasters weren't batch-proces...   Oct 2 2012, 08:27
- - 2Bdecided   I'm only judging from the Beetledrops website ...   Oct 2 2012, 09:27
- - mzil   Regarding EQ, since none of us have heard the mast...   Oct 2 2012, 14:54
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (mzil @ Oct 2 2012, 14:54) Regardin...   Oct 2 2012, 16:41
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 2 2012, 11:41) QUO...   Oct 3 2012, 02:42
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (krabapple @ Oct 3 2012, 02:42) QUO...   Oct 5 2012, 10:00
- - greynol   The point that seems to be overlooked about MFSL i...   Oct 2 2012, 15:13
|- - mzil   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 2 2012, 10:13) The p...   Oct 2 2012, 22:48
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 2 2012, 10:13) The p...   Oct 3 2012, 02:35
||- - mzil   QUOTE (krabapple @ Oct 2 2012, 21:35) I d...   Oct 3 2012, 18:52
|- - mzil   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 2 2012, 10:13) The p...   Oct 3 2012, 18:32
- - greynol   ABX?!? Are we now claiming that different mas...   Oct 2 2012, 22:54
|- - mzil   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 2 2012, 17:54) ABX?...   Oct 2 2012, 23:59
|- - Porcus   Are you saying that you were not trolling when you...   Oct 3 2012, 00:12
|- - mzil   QUOTE (Porcus @ Oct 2 2012, 19:12) Are yo...   Oct 3 2012, 01:07
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (mzil @ Oct 3 2012, 02:07) QUOTE (P...   Oct 3 2012, 10:18
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Porcus @ Oct 3 2012, 05:18) Actual...   Oct 3 2012, 19:35
|- - greynol   QUOTE (krabapple @ Oct 3 2012, 11:35) One...   Oct 3 2012, 20:56
|- - mzil   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 3 2012, 15:56) QUOTE...   Oct 3 2012, 21:42
- - greynol   mzil, I'll gladly show you logs demonstrating...   Oct 3 2012, 00:20
|- - mzil   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 2 2012, 19:20) mzil,...   Oct 3 2012, 04:54
- - greynol   Here you go: CODEfoo_abx 1.3.1 report foobar2000 v...   Oct 3 2012, 05:29
- - mzil   There's a huge difference in the audio level, ...   Oct 3 2012, 07:13
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (mzil @ Oct 3 2012, 08:13) There...   Oct 3 2012, 08:19
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Porcus @ Oct 3 2012, 00:19) Replay...   Oct 3 2012, 10:42
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 3 2012, 11:42) QUOTE...   Oct 3 2012, 19:55
- - RonaldDumsfeld   QUOTE Looking forward to hearing the mono versions...   Oct 3 2012, 17:00
- - greynol   If you boost the bass and treble, or cut the mids,...   Oct 3 2012, 18:49
|- - Ed Seedhouse   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 3 2012, 10:49) Wheth...   Oct 4 2012, 16:32
|- - Ed Seedhouse   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 3 2012, 10:49) Wheth...   Oct 4 2012, 18:39
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Ed Seedhouse @ Oct 4 2012, 10:39) ...   Oct 4 2012, 23:20
- - mzil   ^Exactly.   Oct 3 2012, 19:42
- - greynol   Now you're being pedantic and of course there...   Oct 3 2012, 21:47
|- - mzil   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 3 2012, 16:47) Were ...   Oct 3 2012, 22:17
||- - greynol   QUOTE (mzil @ Oct 3 2012, 14:17) [*Not su...   Oct 3 2012, 22:19
|- - mzil   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 3 2012, 16:47) If MF...   Oct 3 2012, 23:11
- - Porcus   For further confusion, throw in the reported DSOTM...   Oct 3 2012, 21:52
|- - godrick   QUOTE (Porcus @ Oct 3 2012, 21:52) For fu...   Oct 4 2012, 00:28
- - greynol   If you apply de-emphasis to the Capitol sample, re...   Oct 3 2012, 22:12
- - greynol   1) Aside attempting to address your comment about ...   Oct 3 2012, 23:15
- - greynol   If there is no topic to bump, feel free to start a...   Oct 4 2012, 00:33
- - krabapple   Do we know that MFSL's versions are typically ...   Oct 4 2012, 05:48
|- - eahm   QUOTE (krabapple @ Oct 3 2012, 21:48) Do ...   Oct 4 2012, 07:24
|- - Batman321   QUOTE (eahm @ Oct 4 2012, 01:24) QUOTE (k...   Oct 4 2012, 08:35
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Batman321 @ Oct 4 2012, 08:35) Wha...   Oct 5 2012, 10:08
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (eahm @ Oct 4 2012, 02:24) QUOTE (k...   Oct 4 2012, 20:41
- - Batman321   Please go back to the topic.   Oct 4 2012, 19:18
- - krabapple   It occurs to me that I own a number of MFSL CDs......   Oct 4 2012, 20:49
- - 2Bdecided   I just want to tell you, absolutely definitively, ...   Oct 5 2012, 10:16
|- - _if   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 5 2012, 05:16) You...   Oct 5 2012, 19:47
- - derty2   Sean Magee has confirmed today that the vinyl is c...   Nov 12 2012, 20:19
|- - Batman321   QUOTE (derty2 @ Nov 12 2012, 14:19) Sean ...   Nov 12 2012, 21:12
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Batman321 @ Nov 12 2012, 20:12) I...   Nov 14 2012, 14:26
- - greynol   It could have been cut from 16/44.1 and no one wou...   Nov 12 2012, 22:15
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (derty2 @ Nov 12 2012, 20:19) Sean ...   Nov 13 2012, 12:56
- - 2Bdecided   It seems many of the copies sold in the US have pr...   Nov 16 2012, 18:15
- - Batman321   Looks like the quality control guys at Rainbo Reco...   Nov 16 2012, 21:03
- - Batman321   warped vinyl lots of clicks and pops scratches wei...   Nov 16 2012, 23:18
|- - Ed Seedhouse   QUOTE (Batman321 @ Nov 16 2012, 14:18) wa...   Nov 17 2012, 00:00
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Batman321 @ Nov 16 2012, 22:18) no...   Nov 19 2012, 12:51
- - 2Bdecided   The guy who remastered the Beatles vinyl quotes th...   Nov 20 2012, 18:59
|- - Batman321   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 20 2012, 12:59) Th...   Nov 20 2012, 20:42
||- - Porcus   QUOTE (Batman321 @ Nov 20 2012, 20:42) So...   Nov 20 2012, 22:26
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 20 2012, 13:59) Th...   Nov 21 2012, 15:09
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (krabapple @ Nov 21 2012, 14:09) is...   Nov 22 2012, 12:52
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 22 2012, 07:52) I ...   Nov 23 2012, 10:51
|- - Batman321   QUOTE (krabapple @ Nov 23 2012, 04:51) QU...   Nov 23 2012, 20:06
- - greynol   Just an FYI: That some guy is a disgruntled HA mem...   Nov 20 2012, 22:21
- - greynol   There's a reason I don't read too many dis...   Nov 21 2012, 15:33


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