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Opus is now RFC6716, version 1.0.1 released!
xiphmont
post Sep 11 2012, 20:19
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"Mozilla and the Xiph.Org Foundation are pleased to announce the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) has standardized Opus as RFC 6716. Opus is the first state-of-the-art, fully Free and Open audio codec ratified by a major standards organization."

Full announcement at xiph.org/press/2012/rfc-6716

Yay!

This post has been edited by Frank Bicking: Sep 11 2012, 20:46
Reason for edit: Fixed URL.
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Anakunda
post Oct 1 2012, 10:45
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I've got this wish if some developer could write a directshow filter for opus...I find this ideal codec and bitrates for secondary tracks (commentary and similar)....
http://www.xiph.org/dshow/

What is the higest input bit depth?



This post has been edited by Anakunda: Oct 1 2012, 10:49
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lvqcl
post Oct 1 2012, 15:30
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QUOTE (Anakunda @ Oct 1 2012, 13:45) *
What is the higest input bit depth?

foobar2000 already has built-in preset for Opus.
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Yakov
post Oct 10 2012, 23:11
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QUOTE (lvqcl @ Oct 1 2012, 15:30) *
QUOTE (Anakunda @ Oct 1 2012, 13:45) *
What is the higest input bit depth?

foobar2000 already has built-in preset for Opus.



When encoding with Opus in foobar2000, what is the default export sampling rate? opusenc.exe defaults to 48 KHz so I assume it uses this. If the input is 24-bit 96 KHz is that would I'd end up with? How would I change bit depth and sampling rates in foobar?


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MPEG-4 Apple AAC VBR 160 kbps
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saratoga
post Oct 11 2012, 02:27
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QUOTE (Yakov @ Oct 10 2012, 18:11) *
QUOTE (lvqcl @ Oct 1 2012, 15:30) *
QUOTE (Anakunda @ Oct 1 2012, 13:45) *
What is the higest input bit depth?

foobar2000 already has built-in preset for Opus.



When encoding with Opus in foobar2000, what is the default export sampling rate? opusenc.exe defaults to 48 KHz so I assume it uses this. If the input is 24-bit 96 KHz is that would I'd end up with? How would I change bit depth and sampling rates in foobar?


It should use whatever sample rate you feed it. IIRC opusenc does this as well.
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Yakov
post Oct 11 2012, 04:28
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When encoding with Opus in foobar2000, what is the default export sampling rate? opusenc.exe defaults to 48 KHz so I assume it uses this. If the input is 24-bit 96 KHz is that would I'd end up with? How would I change bit depth and sampling rates in foobar?
[/quote]

It should use whatever sample rate you feed it. IIRC opusenc does this as well.
[/quote]

Really? I don't think that 3mb was 24-bit 96 KHz. Is there a way to find out what an opus file is, in terms of bit rate, bit depth, sampling rate, etc.?

Aw, I messed up the quoting didn't I? How do I not do that?

This post has been edited by Yakov: Oct 11 2012, 04:29


--------------------
MPEG-4 Apple AAC VBR 160 kbps
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saratoga
post Oct 11 2012, 04:59
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QUOTE (Yakov @ Oct 10 2012, 23:28) *
Really? I don't think that 3mb was 24-bit 96 KHz. Is there a way to find out what an opus file is, in terms of bit rate, bit depth, sampling rate, etc.?


Internally sampling rate is always 48k, but I believe it will be resampled back to 96k in foobar (haven't tested this though so I might be wrong). Bitrate depends on your settings, you can check the result in foobar.

Only PCM files have a bit depth, not lossy formats like Opus.

Edit: Just tested and doing 44.1k Wav > Opus results in an opus file with SAMPLERATE_ORGINAL set to 44.1k as expected. Decoding that file in foobar without specifying a resampler does output a 48k WAV file however.

This post has been edited by saratoga: Oct 11 2012, 05:10
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Dynamic
post Oct 11 2012, 17:44
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QUOTE (saratoga @ Oct 11 2012, 04:59) *
Edit: Just tested and doing 44.1k Wav > Opus results in an opus file with SAMPLERATE_ORGINAL set to 44.1k as expected. Decoding that file in foobar without specifying a resampler does output a 48k WAV file however.


Yup, this came up in a thread about fb2k Opus behaviour before. fb2k's internal architecture is geared to playback, where 48kHz is the sensible choice for Opus (and the incoming sample rate may get changed mid-stream quite legitimately, especially for streaming).

I don't think fb2k's Converter dialog yet includes an option to automatically resample Opus back to original sample rate by passing that data forward, but it's feasible in future.

In the mean time, you need to manually resample to the required rate.

I don't think there's any user option for conditional DSP use in the Converter based on values in the file or stream properties (e.g. set Resampler (PPHS) to SAMPLERATE_ORIGINAL when that value is present in the current file)


P.S. With quoting, you need to delete after the tag that looks a bit like
[ quote name='blahblah' date='Oct 11 2012, 09:45 post='987654']
to keep it inside a quote box, and don't delete the [ /quote] tag at the end either. A quote needs a starting tag and a closing tag with a forward slash.

If the person you're quoting had quoted someone else and you don't need the quote-within-a-quote, you can select from the start of the second [ quote] to the end of the first [ /quote] and delete it.
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Garf
post Dec 7 2012, 12:29
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QUOTE (Dynamic @ Oct 11 2012, 17:44) *
I don't think fb2k's Converter dialog yet includes an option to automatically resample Opus back to original sample rate by passing that data forward, but it's feasible in future.


What would a valid use case for that be?

Sounds like an option that mostly would allow people to shoot themselves in the foot.
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Dynamic
post Dec 7 2012, 23:00
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QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 7 2012, 11:29) *
QUOTE (Dynamic @ Oct 11 2012, 17:44) *
I don't think fb2k's Converter dialog yet includes an option to automatically resample Opus back to original sample rate by passing that data forward, but it's feasible in future.


What would a valid use case for that be?

Sounds like an option that mostly would allow people to shoot themselves in the foot.


I'm not really claiming a good use case, and it's not worth any major programming time to add a feature, I'm sure, though I think fb2k does already pass on some metadata (at least a flag) to indicate when a lossy operation has occurred so it can 'dither only lossy sources' in the Convert dialogue. I think it also passes on the original bit depth when known.

As an intellectual exercise, of little merit, the only performance-enhancing use-case I've thought of is suboptimal already, but knowledge of the source rate could plausibly reduce the degradation somewhat:

• Imagine it is absolutely necessary to transcode from opus (as our only available source) into, let's say, mp3 for compatibility with a particular device.
• As an aside, I own one for background music purposes in a café, where it sounds pretty good to be fair, though it's about to seem like a pile of $#!† in the words that follow: It's a DAB-One FM/DAB radio with mp3-on-SD-card playback that will play only mp3 files (or mp2 renamed as mp3), but never lossless, and it misbehaves by dipping the volume for a few seconds sporadically if it's fed with an AUX input on the 3.5mm stereo jack, even when it doesn't seem to peak as high as normal mp3 loudness (which I usually set to about 84.5 dB SPL Replay Gain, so not that high).
• If the audio is known to contain nothing above the original sampling rate's Nyquist limit, resampling back to the original sampling rate will usually allow mp3 encoders to be more bitrate-efficient and thus produce lower bitrates for a given VBR quality, or higher quality for a given ABR/CBR bitrate target, thus reducing the transcoding degradation that might occur. I'm not sure whether such inefficiency is common to AAC or Vorbis, however.

I could do that manually, and it's such a rare use case it's not worth any effort to implement just for that. Having opus-incompatible devices, where you might want to play back an opus podcast, say, might be a considerably larger use case, but still not enormous, and easy enough to over-ride manually, unless mass-converting podcasts from numerous sources with varied source sampling rates. The commandline using opusdec fed into LAME then becomes an option to automate the idea.


I'm not suggesting it's an especially useful idea in general, but it would simply mirror the behaviour of the Opusdec commandline decoder (and only in Convert mode, not playback) which will decode to the exact same sample rate as the original, which is naively the 'expected behaviour' of a decoder, sometimes considered a principle of good intuitive software design to make this intuitive behaviour the default (i.e. returning the same number of samples and same file duration) unless it's noticeably harmful (the only harm is a little extra processor load). There is a population even among fb2k users that will expect the naive behaviour when converting and may cause enough annoyance on the forums to encourage its adoption in fb2k, but I somehow doubt it'll be seen as worthwhile.

A non-naive user who understands what's inside the black box will happily over-ride the default if it's unnecessary to resample or deselect any pass-forward option in the Convert dialogue of fb2k. Opusdec's choice is pretty good as a defensive measure against spurious bug reports for 'unexpected behaviour' when you have a good resampler built in.

It's fairly harmless as the resampler has far less distortion than a lossy codec and resampling will mostly happen for CD-sourced material with plenty of bandwidth between 20kHz and 22.05kHz, so in terms of shooting oneself in the foot, I'd argue that it's pretty much a blank round (to take the metaphor too far!). They'll find plenty of ways to hurt their feet, regardless! Xiph.org were also fairly clever about cut-off choices in the antialias filter, IIRC from reading the speex resampler source code they used in libopus, limiting bandwidth degradation from multiple lowpass filters.

This post has been edited by Dynamic: Dec 7 2012, 23:02
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Posts in this topic
- xiphmont   Opus is now RFC6716, version 1.0.1 released!   Sep 11 2012, 20:19
- - bawjaws   https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/09/its-opus-...code...   Sep 11 2012, 20:32
- - eahm   Great news! The 0.1.5 binary is 1.0.1 RC3, wh...   Sep 11 2012, 21:05
- - IgorC   Congratulations, Guys, Great job! QUOTE (e...   Sep 11 2012, 21:25
|- - eahm   QUOTE (IgorC @ Sep 11 2012, 13:25) QUOTE ...   Sep 11 2012, 21:57
|- - Steve Forte Rio   QUOTE (eahm @ Sep 11 2012, 18:57) QUOTE (...   Sep 12 2012, 15:37
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (Steve Forte Rio @ Sep 12 2012, 15...   Sep 12 2012, 17:49
|- - zhitch   QUOTE (Steve Forte Rio @ Sep 12 2012, 10...   Oct 10 2012, 16:32
- - yourlord   Congrats and great work guys!   Sep 11 2012, 22:54
- - jensend   PARTY TIME!   Sep 11 2012, 23:14
- - benski   Is storage in the Ogg container format intended to...   Sep 12 2012, 00:08
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (benski @ Sep 12 2012, 00:08) Is st...   Sep 12 2012, 00:47
||- - iwod   QUOTE (Dynamic @ Sep 12 2012, 00:47) QUOT...   Sep 12 2012, 15:35
||- - Dynamic   QUOTE (iwod @ Sep 12 2012, 15:35) Ogg and...   Sep 12 2012, 16:50
|- - jensend   QUOTE (benski @ Sep 11 2012, 17:08) Is st...   Sep 12 2012, 04:41
- - hlloyge   Well, it would be nice if Apple adopts it for iTun...   Sep 12 2012, 10:12
|- - Yakov   QUOTE (hlloyge @ Sep 12 2012, 10:12) Well...   Oct 10 2012, 23:06
- - mamboman   Congratulations to the developers - Opus is a real...   Sep 12 2012, 10:56
|- - bandpass   QUOTE (mamboman @ Sep 12 2012, 10:56) My ...   Sep 12 2012, 13:40
- - CoRoNe   If I understand correctly, these are the problems ...   Sep 12 2012, 17:53
|- - 2012   QUOTE (CoRoNe @ Sep 12 2012, 17:53) If I ...   Sep 12 2012, 18:52
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (CoRoNe @ Sep 12 2012, 17:53) If I ...   Sep 15 2012, 16:48
|- - NullC   QUOTE (Dynamic @ Sep 15 2012, 07:48) I be...   Sep 16 2012, 03:14
|- - Dynamic   Thanks for the information & correction, NullC...   Sep 17 2012, 17:01
- - Speckmade   I guess this is the time and place for the big ...   Sep 12 2012, 18:53
- - eahm   I just noticed, the homepage of Opus says "Bi...   Sep 13 2012, 03:35
- - m45t3r   QUOTE (eahm @ Sep 12 2012, 23:35) I just ...   Sep 13 2012, 04:30
|- - eahm   QUOTE (m45t3r @ Sep 12 2012, 20:30) QUOTE...   Sep 13 2012, 04:39
- - viktor   Those who'd like to see Opus being supported o...   Sep 15 2012, 12:01
- - eahm   I don't know how long ago they started but Abs...   Sep 18 2012, 19:07
|- - maikmerten   QUOTE (eahm @ Sep 18 2012, 19:07) I don...   Sep 21 2012, 09:10
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (maikmerten @ Sep 21 2012, 09:10) I...   Sep 22 2012, 22:56
- - eahm   Are they going to release the 1.0.1 binaries for W...   Sep 20 2012, 19:27
- - yourlord   I have to admit I was a little stunned by the bitr...   Sep 21 2012, 16:38
- - m45t3r   QUOTE (Dynamic @ Sep 22 2012, 18:56) QUOT...   Sep 22 2012, 23:34
|- - IgorC   AAC-ELD uses a low delay modifications of SBR (LD ...   Sep 23 2012, 01:06
- - naturfreak   There is also a commercial competitor named AAC-EL...   Sep 22 2012, 23:54
- - eahm   I think they did read my email, they took off 128k...   Sep 26 2012, 00:42
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (eahm @ Sep 26 2012, 00:42) I think...   Sep 26 2012, 20:27
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (Dynamic @ Sep 26 2012, 23:27) Both...   Sep 26 2012, 20:51
||- - Dynamic   Thanks. Had been getting unsupported format or cor...   Sep 26 2012, 22:49
||- - IgorC   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Sep 26 2012, 16:51) QUOTE ...   Sep 30 2012, 16:32
|- - Dynamic   QUOTE (Dynamic @ Sep 26 2012, 20:27) BTW,...   Oct 2 2012, 12:02
|- - maikmerten   QUOTE (Dynamic @ Oct 2 2012, 11:02) I fou...   Oct 2 2012, 12:30
- - Anakunda   Hi all Today foobar2k released the free encoder...   Sep 30 2012, 11:51
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Sep 30 2012, 14:51) Tod...   Sep 30 2012, 11:55
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Sep 30 2012, 07:51) As ...   Sep 30 2012, 17:13
|- - Anakunda   I tried to compile 64bit version of the encoder ...   Sep 30 2012, 18:02
|- - twist3d   [quote name='Anakunda' date='Sep 30 20...   Oct 2 2012, 15:14
|- - Anakunda   QUOTE (twist3d @ Oct 2 2012, 16:14) Just ...   Oct 2 2012, 15:22
- - Anakunda   Is there a binary of Opus Tools using libopus 1.0....   Sep 30 2012, 12:14
|- - Emre   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Sep 30 2012, 14:14) Is ...   Sep 30 2012, 16:32
|- - eahm   QUOTE (Emre @ Sep 30 2012, 08:32) QUOTE (...   Sep 30 2012, 16:38
|- - Emre   QUOTE (eahm @ Sep 30 2012, 18:38) QUOTE (...   Sep 30 2012, 19:05
- - [JAZ]   @Anakunda: Opus is designed with realtime communi...   Sep 30 2012, 13:05
- - eahm   [JAZ], What are you talking about? QUOTE (Anakund...   Sep 30 2012, 16:25
|- - [JAZ]   QUOTE (eahm @ Sep 30 2012, 17:25) [JAZ], ...   Sep 30 2012, 16:49
- - Anakunda   Thank U for the updated encoder   Sep 30 2012, 16:42
- - IgorC   (unconstrained) VBR is a default mode. --bitrate ...   Sep 30 2012, 18:11
- - eahm   I can't tell precisely with this build because...   Sep 30 2012, 21:03
- - lvqcl   0.1.5 is the version of Opus_Tools (opusenc, opusd...   Sep 30 2012, 22:19
- - Anakunda   I've got this wish if some developer could wri...   Oct 1 2012, 10:45
|- - nu774   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Oct 1 2012, 18:45) I...   Oct 1 2012, 14:20
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Oct 1 2012, 13:45) What...   Oct 1 2012, 15:30
||- - Yakov   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Oct 1 2012, 15:30) QUOTE (...   Oct 10 2012, 23:11
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (Yakov @ Oct 10 2012, 18:11) QUOTE ...   Oct 11 2012, 02:27
||- - Yakov   When encoding with Opus in foobar2000, what is the...   Oct 11 2012, 04:28
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (Yakov @ Oct 10 2012, 23:28) Really...   Oct 11 2012, 04:59
|||- - Dynamic   QUOTE (saratoga @ Oct 11 2012, 04:59) Edi...   Oct 11 2012, 17:44
|||- - Garf   QUOTE (Dynamic @ Oct 11 2012, 17:44) I do...   Dec 7 2012, 12:29
|||- - Dynamic   QUOTE (Garf @ Dec 7 2012, 11:29) QUOTE (D...   Dec 7 2012, 23:00
||- - NullC   QUOTE (Yakov @ Oct 10 2012, 20:28) Really...   Nov 28 2012, 19:54
|- - Dynamic   Anakunda, from your screenshot, you're asking ...   Oct 1 2012, 18:01
- - IgorC   The highest input bit depth is 32 bits for Opus.   Oct 1 2012, 17:52
|- - 2012   QUOTE (IgorC @ Oct 1 2012, 17:52) The hig...   Oct 2 2012, 01:40
- - lvqcl   Also, --vbr and --comp 10 are the default settings...   Oct 1 2012, 18:09
- - lvqcl   Interesting, but foobar2000 sends either 8, 16, 24...   Oct 2 2012, 04:16
- - eahm   RareWares added an SSE optimized 1.0.1 build as we...   Oct 10 2012, 17:29
- - CoRoNe   My god! opusinfo.exe - 63488b (non-SSE), 55961...   Oct 10 2012, 20:07
|- - Anakunda   QUOTE (CoRoNe @ Oct 10 2012, 21:07) My go...   Oct 10 2012, 20:11
- - Anakunda   It looks like libOpus 1.0.2 was released: QUOTE ...   Dec 7 2012, 07:52
- - eahm   opusenc file.wav: and with foobar2000:   Dec 7 2012, 08:58
- - Seren   Also getting ^this^   Dec 7 2012, 10:35
- - Anakunda   You are right eahm, seren. there's missing dll...   Dec 7 2012, 10:58
|- - Seren   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Dec 7 2012, 17:58) You ...   Dec 7 2012, 12:00
- - Anakunda   I apologize for the inconvenience, it as built wit...   Dec 7 2012, 12:06
|- - Garf   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Dec 7 2012, 12:06) I ap...   Dec 7 2012, 12:34
|- - Seren   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Dec 7 2012, 19:06) I ap...   Dec 7 2012, 13:38
|- - Gainless   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Dec 7 2012, 12:06) I ap...   Dec 7 2012, 17:28
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (Gainless @ Dec 7 2012, 20:28) ...   Dec 7 2012, 18:32
|- - Anakunda   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Dec 7 2012, 18:32) Probabl...   Dec 7 2012, 18:39
|- - Gainless   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Dec 7 2012, 18:39) QUOT...   Dec 7 2012, 19:37
|- - eahm   QUOTE (Gainless @ Dec 7 2012, 11:37) Well...   Dec 7 2012, 20:27
- - eahm   Anakunda, the last one works thank you.   Dec 7 2012, 17:56
- - DOS386   QUOTE (xiphmont @ Sep 11 2012, 13:19) ...   Dec 20 2012, 10:44
- - Anakunda   Here is a new opus library version 1.1 alpha annou...   Dec 23 2012, 01:53
- - saratoga   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Dec 22 2012, 20:53) The...   Dec 23 2012, 02:03
|- - Anakunda   QUOTE (saratoga @ Dec 23 2012, 02:03) QUO...   Dec 23 2012, 02:09
|- - Speckmade   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Dec 23 2012, 03:09) So ...   Dec 28 2012, 13:08
- - Seren   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Dec 23 2012, 08:53) Ple...   Dec 23 2012, 03:22


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