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Banished from Computer Audiophile
prufrock
post Jul 3 2012, 19:59
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I have just been banished from Computer Audiophile. Is that a good thing. Are the people here nice?
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Canar
post Jul 3 2012, 20:01
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 11:59) *
I have just been banished from Computer Audiophile. Is that a good thing. Are the people here nice?
Don't make audio claims without objective evidence and you'll do just fine. Mind sharing why you were banished?


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skamp
post Jul 3 2012, 20:03
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 20:59) *
Are the people here nice?


They are when you don't make claims they know to be wrong.


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pdq
post Jul 3 2012, 20:06
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Anyone who comes here with an open mind will do just fine.
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prufrock
post Jul 3 2012, 20:09
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QUOTE (Canar @ Jul 3 2012, 21:01) *
QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 11:59) *
I have just been banished from Computer Audiophile. Is that a good thing. Are the people here nice?
Don't make audio claims without objective evidence and you'll do just fine. Mind sharing why you were banished?


I created a thread called "The Great Cable and Interconnect Swindle: An Etiology". Its purpose was to explore the evolution of the scam. Its a very interesting topic from a psychological perspective. Non well received over there I'm afraid. Can you talk about it over here?
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uart
post Jul 3 2012, 20:22
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 12:09) *
I created a thread called "The Great Cable and Interconnect Swindle: An Etiology". Its purpose was to explore the evolution of the scam. Its a very interesting topic from a psychological perspective. Non well received over there I'm afraid. Can you talk about it over here?

Oh yeah. The high end audio cable "industry" must have made the most lucrative advantage of auditory placebo effect of any scam in all history. Is your thread still up there, if so post a link I'd be interested to read it.

This post has been edited by uart: Jul 3 2012, 20:23
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bandpass
post Jul 3 2012, 20:27
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Just had a peep over there:

QUOTE
I have upsampled over 400 CDs'.

It isn't like studio master naturally but it is definitely an improvement over 16/44.1 files.

I upsample to 24/88.2 and find it better than 24/96. The software is free and very good. The only disadvantage was, I had to upgrade 1 TB HDD.

laugh.gif
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prufrock
post Jul 3 2012, 20:30
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QUOTE (uart @ Jul 3 2012, 21:22) *
QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 12:09) *
I created a thread called "The Great Cable and Interconnect Swindle: An Etiology". Its purpose was to explore the evolution of the scam. Its a very interesting topic from a psychological perspective. Non well received over there I'm afraid. Can you talk about it over here?

Oh yeah. The high end audio cable "industry" must have made the most lucrative advantage of auditory placebo effect of any scam in all history. Is your thread still up there, if so post a link I'd be interested to read it.



Here is the link.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-gener...etiology-12488/

They kept picking on me and calling me a Drongo cause I couldn't hear stuff that was supposed to come out the ends of their stupid cables.
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Porcus
post Jul 3 2012, 20:35
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 21:09) *
I created a thread called "The Great Cable and Interconnect Swindle: An Etiology". Its purpose was to explore the evolution of the scam. Its a very interesting topic from a psychological perspective. Non well received over there I'm afraid. Can you talk about it over here?


Yeah ... although someone might suspect that you are really an infiltrating agent for the placebo-eating audionuts, sent here with instructions to 'win their trust by saying something bad about cables'

wink.gif


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mzil
post Jul 3 2012, 20:39
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From the thread [which I assume it is OK for me to link to by all):
"The trouble with just blind (rather than double blind) is that it is so open to things going wrong. Factors that you wouldn't even suspect can come into play. Small seemingly insignificant cues than throw the whole thing. You need very well thought out experimental design to eliminate these. Double blind protocol is an absolute must....

It is beyond the resources of most individuals to do the above type of testing. It should be a requirement that anyone selling this stuff submit it to an independent agency to test, and those tests be made public. This should be done before it is released for sale. This is not happening atm, and is basically the cause of this whole fiasco."

I think most here will agree with the gist of the need for double blind testing, but the expectation that manufacturers actually adhere to this seems an unrealistic expectation, in my opinion, considering almost none that I know of, in the history of all audio, ever have.

[Possible exceptions: Carver (in a weird sense), Halfler, Peter Walker of Quad, off the top of my head, regarding mostly amps, not wire, but I would need more time to research the matter which I don't have at the moment].

This post has been edited by mzil: Jul 3 2012, 20:42
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skamp
post Jul 3 2012, 20:39
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Concern trolling accusations again? :-/


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prufrock
post Jul 3 2012, 20:46
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Jul 3 2012, 21:35) *
QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 21:09) *
I created a thread called "The Great Cable and Interconnect Swindle: An Etiology". Its purpose was to explore the evolution of the scam. Its a very interesting topic from a psychological perspective. Non well received over there I'm afraid. Can you talk about it over here?


Yeah ... although someone might suspect that you are really an infiltrating agent for the placebo-eating audionuts, sent here with instructions to 'win their trust by saying something bad about cables'

wink.gif


I called them names at the end. Told them they girlie men.
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prufrock
post Jul 3 2012, 20:53
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QUOTE (skamp @ Jul 3 2012, 21:39) *
Concern trolling accusations again? :-/


I guess its hard to tell people they are hearing things. They get offended and reckon you are a troll.
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Canar
post Jul 3 2012, 21:15
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 12:09) *
I created a thread called "The Great Cable and Interconnect Swindle: An Etiology". Its purpose was to explore the evolution of the scam. Its a very interesting topic from a psychological perspective. Non well received over there I'm afraid. Can you talk about it over here?
You'll fit in here just fine, I'd imagine. I actually laughed out loud when I read this. And yes, if there's a place to discuss this sort of thing objectively and scientifically, it'd be here.

This post has been edited by Canar: Jul 3 2012, 21:16


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prufrock
post Jul 3 2012, 21:41
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Its a funny place over there. Many posters have their cables and interconnects proudly listed at the bottom of their posts. They often talk about them with passion and conviction.
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sorabji
post Jul 3 2012, 22:11
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 12:30) *
QUOTE (uart @ Jul 3 2012, 21:22) *
QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 12:09) *
I created a thread called "The Great Cable and Interconnect Swindle: An Etiology". Its purpose was to explore the evolution of the scam. Its a very interesting topic from a psychological perspective. Non well received over there I'm afraid. Can you talk about it over here?

Oh yeah. The high end audio cable "industry" must have made the most lucrative advantage of auditory placebo effect of any scam in all history. Is your thread still up there, if so post a link I'd be interested to read it.



Here is the link.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-gener...etiology-12488/

They kept picking on me and calling me a Drongo cause I couldn't hear stuff that was supposed to come out the ends of their stupid cables.


I looked in there a little. 100% predictable in the general sense.

Couldn't read the whole thing without encountering an odd combination of sleepiness and nausea. Waste of time...
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Batman321
post Jul 4 2012, 00:48
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I was dumped from Steve Hoffman forum for being too skeptical about Barry Diament and his 'audiophile' products.

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Shadin
post Jul 4 2012, 00:49
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QUOTE
I created a thread called "The Great Cable and Interconnect Swindle: An Etiology". Its purpose was to explore the evolution of the scam. Its a very interesting topic from a psychological perspective. Non well received over there I'm afraid. Can you talk about it over here?


I'm a huge lurker here but I had to say, that's hilarious. You should cross-post that to Head-Fi, I'm sure they'll appreciate it just as much as the original intended audience.
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AshenTech
post Jul 4 2012, 02:21
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head-fi the place I once saw people calling $3800 re-cables for IEM's a "great buy" (not kidding...long ago but still...)

head-fi the place where buying an audio player for $800 that has roll-off worse then a $30 coby....

head-fi the place where people say the s:flo2 is an amazing buy....with its 15hrs of battery life, horrible firmware and "squishy" screen.

I could go on, the site the OP was banned from looks like a PC Audio version of head-fi....

please dont think I hate all people at head-fi,there are 5-6 people I reaspect there Joker's multi-iem review and ClieOS's IEM reivew thread are must reads before buying a new set of IEM's for example, and are as unbias as a person can be(in my honest opinion they are anyway)

honestly, Head-Fi banned me for countering fanboi stuff about the s:flo2 being wonderful and all sansa players being crap(theres a faction over there who really hate anything cheap and good...lol)

that place STILL makes me laugh with reviews of cables that cost thousands of dollars ment to recable headphones that cost hundreds of dollars......and people saying they are worth every penny....oh, my advice, never say anything negative about any of their sponsors, its a sure ticket to bannsville.
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kwanbis
post Jul 4 2012, 04:24
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 20:09) *
I created a thread called "The Great Cable and Interconnect Swindle: An Etiology". Its purpose was to explore the evolution of the scam. Its a very interesting topic from a psychological perspective. Non well received over there I'm afraid. Can you talk about it over here?

Welcome to Hydrogenaudio! wink.gif

Wow! I just realized I've been here for 10 years!

This post has been edited by kwanbis: Jul 4 2012, 04:26


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Paul_ 2012
post Jul 4 2012, 04:51
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prufrock, I share your frustrations and instead of generating more endless debate on the merry-go-round I would like to submit that all our efforts be channelled together. I spent quite some time trying to find ‘evidence’ either way in the cable debate and came up with zero. There does not seem to be any ABX testing out there that debunks the various myths surrounding ‘enhanced’ cables and interconnects. Of course, when you look at the number of products and all of the advertising blurb it would be an overwhelming task. There is however references and links to the Russ Andrews Accessories false advertising claim in the UK. Which is a lonely win! There are older links around to the James Randi challenge, but in mho there needs to be a concerted effort to challenge the manufacturers/sellers of products to conduct credible ABX testing to prove their claims. Surely there are enough smart people here in HA to author an irresistible open challenge to manufacturers, maybe in the same way as the claims are themselves scripted to avoid the courts. This could be, with the necessary permissions displayed prominently on the HA site along with the number of days that the challenges have been ignored. The incentive for any prospective organization taking up the challenge of course is that should any claims be proven most if not all of us would have to rethink our positions.
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Ron Jones
post Jul 4 2012, 04:51
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I read a few pages of the CA thread. It starts out well enough, as such threads tend to, and some of the expensive cable owners who chimed in seemed fairly reasonable, actually. Then came the inevitable devolution, which is about where I lost interest. Standard fare, really.

My perspective on these products is this: if you like buying expensive cables, buy expensive cables. Are high-end manufacturers like Nordost scamming consumers? You betcha. Does this concern me overly? Not really. I wouldn't voluntarily put myself in any position to attempt to explore the subject any further. Suffice it to say, if you intend to play the role of the sheep in the wolf's den, you get what you get. That's not to say that a ban was deserved, but expectations being as they are and so forth...

In any case, I don't think you'll have much trouble finding a home here.
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greynol
post Jul 4 2012, 05:59
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QUOTE (Paul_ 2012 @ Jul 3 2012, 20:51) *
There does not seem to be any ABX testing out there that debunks the various myths surrounding ‘enhanced’ cables and interconnects.

....nor will there ever be as that is not the purpose of an ABX test.


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db1989
post Jul 4 2012, 06:15
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QUOTE (Paul_ 2012 @ Jul 4 2012, 04:51) *
[…] The incentive for any prospective organization taking up the challenge of course is that should any claims be proven most if not all of us would have to rethink our positions.
I suspect such manufacturers know as well as we do that their claims will not be verified. Why on Earth, then, would they agree to a test? Most of the time, they don’t even bother to acknowledge criticism, never mind to respond in kind. I think you’re going overboard with ‘assuming good faith’, as Wikipedia might put it.

This post has been edited by db1989: Jul 4 2012, 06:18
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dhromed
post Jul 4 2012, 08:57
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QUOTE (prufrock @ Jul 3 2012, 22:41) *
Its a funny place over there. Many posters have their cables and interconnects proudly listed at the bottom of their posts. They often talk about them with passion and conviction.


Jewellery. Expensive stuff to display their affluence and social status. Nothing more, nothing less.
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