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Why’s FLAC ‘the’ lossless codec? Is it future-proof(able)? Comparisons, [TOS #6: was “Future proof lossless audio/codec” in General Audio]
eahm
post Jun 23 2012, 18:03
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I am trying to understand why is FLAC standardizing in the lossless world? Reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of...chnical_details isn't True Audio more future proof? All these channels and huge range, isn't it the "best" option for the next "100 years"?

If one day everyone will start using FLAC, will there be a way to expand the number of channels available? For expample the "new new" 12.1 Surround System or whatever they will come up with.

Just some thoughts, don't want to get anyone upset, I use FLAC and I love it.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by eahm: Jun 23 2012, 18:03
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lvqcl
post Jun 25 2012, 11:45
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Apparent lowpass at 13...14 kHz and other signs of lossy encoding.



This post has been edited by lvqcl: Jun 25 2012, 11:50
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Dario
post Jun 25 2012, 12:00
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QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 25 2012, 12:45) *
Apparent lowpass at 13...14 kHz and other signs of lossy encoding.

http://i.imgur.com/tfEKB.png

Alright then. This is a demo recording, and while I can guarantee that it was ripped from an original copy (it’s also verified by AccurateRip), I’d no idea that it was sourced from lossy files, but I’m not surprised, because it is, as I said, a demo recording.

Thank you for the clarification.

On a side note, I have a bunch of other albums that I know to be lossily-mastered (all kinds of stuff happens in the “underground” scene…), and I just realized that I get pretty much the same results (over 15% difference in compression). The album I checked now was bought as WAV from here (but is mastered from lossy files). I guess that settles it. Thanks again.

This post has been edited by Dario: Jun 25 2012, 12:03
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Porcus
post Jun 25 2012, 12:24
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I am not surprised that a demo from a one-man-band is kept as .mp3 and then pressed to CD if someone offers to release it.

Earlier in the thread*, TBeck warns against that comparison where his codec performed also outperformed FLAC by larger margin than usual, on the grounds of the test corpus which included lossy sources.

(That said, I am a bit fascinated by the fact that lossless encoders fail so miserably at packing mp3's back to anything near mp3 size. They are obviously very far from the information content on those particular samples. Then on the other hand, there are good reasons why developers of lossless codecs/encoders do not bother to tune them to for efficiency on cases everyone advises against.)

This post has been edited by Porcus: Jun 25 2012, 12:26


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db1989
post Jun 25 2012, 12:36
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 25 2012, 12:24) *
(That said, I am a bit fascinated by the fact that lossless encoders fail so miserably at packing mp3's back to anything near mp3 size. They are obviously very far from the information content on those particular samples. Then on the other hand, there are good reasons why developers of lossless codecs/encoders do not bother to tune them to for efficiency on cases everyone advises against.)
I’m probably oversimplifying (as is customary!), but I think it’s important here to distinguish between entropy/information as is in theory vs. as it is perceived. Lossy encoding adds noise, distortion, and other features that cannot be classed as information in the sense of something that has any use – but this nonetheless is not something that can be used as a shortcut by a subsequent lossless encoder, which has no way of identifying that it arose in such a way and has no choice but to store it (in all its content-free glory).

Also (and as you implied), there’s little point in making lossless encoding better at representing something that has already been processed by a lossy codec. Transcoding is bad, m’mkay? wink.gif

This post has been edited by db1989: Jun 25 2012, 12:50
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Posts in this topic
- eahm   Why’s FLAC ‘the’ lossless codec? Is it future-proof(able)? Comparisons   Jun 23 2012, 18:03
- - saratoga   If people wanted more channels they'd just upd...   Jun 23 2012, 19:04
- - Debby747   I use and prefer WavPack for its features. The re...   Jun 23 2012, 19:26
- - lvqcl   Why care about future? FLAC is lossless and DRM-fr...   Jun 23 2012, 19:51
- - felix26591   I don't know about the channels, but flac is i...   Jun 23 2012, 20:39
|- - Kohlrabi   QUOTE (felix26591 @ Jun 23 2012, 21:39) I...   Jun 23 2012, 20:43
|- - 2012   QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jun 23 2012, 20:43) QUO...   Jun 23 2012, 21:55
- - eahm   QUOTE (Debby747 @ Jun 23 2012, 11:26) I u...   Jun 23 2012, 20:48
|- - skamp   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 23 2012, 21:48) In my o...   Jun 23 2012, 21:07
||- - IgorC   QUOTE (skamp @ Jun 23 2012, 17:07) Techni...   Jun 23 2012, 23:22
||- - skamp   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 00:22) Is 3%...   Jun 24 2012, 08:53
||- - Porcus   @ Greynol: you don't seem to get the point. I ...   Jun 24 2012, 10:57
|||- - greynol   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 24 2012, 02:57) @ Gre...   Jun 24 2012, 17:28
||- - Dario   QUOTE (skamp @ Jun 23 2012, 22:07) Techni...   Jun 24 2012, 16:36
|||- - greynol   QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 08:36) The co...   Jun 24 2012, 17:31
|||- - Porcus   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 24 2012, 18:31) QUOT...   Jun 24 2012, 18:04
||- - skamp   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 00:22) Is 3%...   Jun 25 2012, 09:31
||- - skamp   QUOTE (skamp @ Jun 25 2012, 10:31) Well, ...   Jun 25 2012, 11:46
|- - db1989   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 23 2012, 20:48) QUOTE (...   Jun 23 2012, 21:28
- - lvqcl   IMO a codec that supports 4GHz samplerate is not b...   Jun 23 2012, 21:08
- - Porcus   If I were dictator and could order specifications ...   Jun 23 2012, 21:50
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 21:50) First...   Jun 23 2012, 22:26
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 13:50) (AFAI...   Jun 23 2012, 22:49
||- - Porcus   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 23 2012, 23:49) QUOT...   Jun 23 2012, 23:28
|- - bryant   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 12:50) I hav...   Jun 24 2012, 22:47
|- - Porcus   @ Bryant: Thanks for enlightening. And well ma...   Jun 25 2012, 01:01
- - greynol   MAC at it's weakest setting compresses better ...   Jun 23 2012, 23:49
- - yourlord   FLAC was early on the scene. Performance is good e...   Jun 24 2012, 01:01
- - Takla   Some other factors which imo made/make for widespr...   Jun 24 2012, 01:13
- - eahm   I am not talking about speed, compression, hardwar...   Jun 24 2012, 01:54
- - Takla   That's fine but most people, even music lovers...   Jun 24 2012, 02:52
- - dumdidum   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 23 2012, 22:50) First...   Jun 24 2012, 16:35
- - IgorC   Those are old results (2006) The last comparison ...   Jun 24 2012, 18:21
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 19:21) Those ...   Jun 24 2012, 18:52
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 24 2012, 14:52) That...   Jun 24 2012, 18:57
- - greynol   Thanks. I see 6% there, not 8% though. Re: Old r...   Jun 24 2012, 18:23
- - IgorC   http://www.synthetic-soul.co.uk/comparison...sion...   Jun 24 2012, 18:29
- - greynol   That doesn't change the fact that much has cha...   Jun 24 2012, 18:54
- - Destroid   I'm late to the discussion so I am starting wi...   Jun 24 2012, 19:01
|- - Porcus   @ Destroid: a few good points, although I don...   Jun 24 2012, 20:06
- - TBeck   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 19:29) http:/...   Jun 24 2012, 19:19
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (TBeck @ Jun 24 2012, 15:19) But it...   Jun 24 2012, 19:53
||- - greynol   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 11:53) FLAC/T...   Jun 24 2012, 20:03
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (TBeck @ Jun 24 2012, 20:19) many f...   Jun 24 2012, 19:54
- - greynol   Personally I only care how comparisons fare agains...   Jun 24 2012, 19:51
- - Dario   Well, I don’t know what kind of albums you g...   Jun 24 2012, 20:21
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 16:21) Well, ...   Jun 24 2012, 20:25
||- - Dario   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 24 2012, 21:25) QUOTE ...   Jun 24 2012, 20:36
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 21:21) Well, ...   Jun 24 2012, 21:25
||- - db1989   QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 20:21) I list...   Jun 25 2012, 06:53
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Dario @ Jun 24 2012, 16:21) I list...   Jun 24 2012, 22:23
- - Destroid   @Porcus Ah, is true. The average user sometimes is...   Jun 24 2012, 20:36
- - IgorC   I have encoded two sets of samples from two last p...   Jun 24 2012, 21:49
- - TBeck   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 24 2012, 20:51) Pers...   Jun 24 2012, 23:31
- - Dario   Here’s a 30-second sample of the album I was talki...   Jun 25 2012, 11:39
- - lvqcl   Apparent lowpass at 13...14 kHz and other signs of...   Jun 25 2012, 11:45
|- - Dario   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 25 2012, 12:45) Appare...   Jun 25 2012, 12:00
|- - Porcus   I am not surprised that a demo from a one-man-band...   Jun 25 2012, 12:24
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 25 2012, 12:24) (That...   Jun 25 2012, 12:36
- - Porcus   The Vàli upload has a peak of only 0.82, and is fr...   Jun 25 2012, 11:52
- - lvqcl   Half a year ago I took 7 albums from my music coll...   Jun 25 2012, 13:19
|- - JJZolx   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 25 2012, 06:19) Half a...   Jun 25 2012, 16:55
- - smok3   as far as longevity goes, i'd use whatever app...   Jun 25 2012, 13:26
- - TBeck   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 25 2012, 13:24) Earli...   Jun 25 2012, 13:59
|- - stephan_g   QUOTE (TBeck @ Jun 25 2012, 14:59) This i...   Jun 25 2012, 16:10
|- - benski   QUOTE (stephan_g @ Jun 25 2012, 11:10) Ho...   Jun 25 2012, 16:43
- - pdq   I doubt that any lossless encoder would do well wi...   Jun 25 2012, 16:38
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (pdq @ Jun 25 2012, 17:38) I doubt ...   Jun 25 2012, 17:31
- - db1989   Does Josh ever still, or have any intention to eve...   Jun 25 2012, 16:49
- - eahm   QUOTE (stephan_g @ Jun 25 2012, 08:10) Ho...   Jun 25 2012, 17:13
|- - benski   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 12:13) QUOTE (...   Jun 25 2012, 17:39
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 13:13) Going b...   Jun 25 2012, 18:32
- - db1989   Yes, quality has nothing to do with it. eahm seems...   Jun 25 2012, 18:41
|- - skamp   QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 25 2012, 19:41) numer...   Jun 25 2012, 18:50
- - eahm   QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 25 2012, 10:41) Yes, ...   Jun 25 2012, 18:47
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 14:47) it...   Jun 25 2012, 18:59
- - lvqcl   TTA is more future-proof than FLAC, Itanium is mor...   Jun 25 2012, 19:14
- - eahm   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 25 2012, 10:59) QUOTE ...   Jun 25 2012, 19:15
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (eahm @ Jun 25 2012, 14:15) QUOTE (...   Jun 25 2012, 19:35
|- - JJZolx   QUOTE (saratoga @ Jun 25 2012, 12:35) Hop...   Jun 25 2012, 19:43
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jun 25 2012, 22:43) It wo...   Jun 25 2012, 19:50
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jun 25 2012, 14:43) QUOTE...   Jun 25 2012, 19:58
- - IgorC   It might be the case that the next step will be no...   Jun 25 2012, 20:00
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jun 25 2012, 21:00) It mig...   Jun 25 2012, 20:06
|- - benski   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 25 2012, 15:06) QUOTE...   Jun 25 2012, 20:14
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (benski @ Jun 25 2012, 21:14) QUOTE...   Jun 25 2012, 20:41
- - eahm   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 25 2012, 11:14) TTA is...   Jun 25 2012, 20:23
- - hlloyge   To return to the original question, I think EAC ha...   Jun 25 2012, 22:41
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (hlloyge @ Jun 25 2012, 23:41) To r...   Jun 25 2012, 23:23
- - greynol   Nah, EAC has had (and still has) internal support ...   Jun 25 2012, 23:20
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 25 2012, 18:20) I am...   Jun 25 2012, 23:42
- - lvqcl   From 2009 ripping/encoding general poll:   Jun 26 2012, 00:14
- - krafty   I think FLAC is popular because it was on the inte...   Jun 26 2012, 00:34
|- - greynol   QUOTE (krafty @ Jun 25 2012, 16:34) I thi...   Jun 26 2012, 04:08
- - Destroid   Which I guess brings the question of, "How ea...   Jun 26 2012, 01:18
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Destroid @ Jun 25 2012, 20:18) Whi...   Jun 26 2012, 01:36
- - onkl   FLAC has a nice sounding name. I believe one of th...   Jun 26 2012, 04:32
- - Zarggg   One could argue that "WMA" and "AAC...   Jun 27 2012, 07:39
|- - bandpass   Onkl's point was that the names are nicer soun...   Jun 27 2012, 08:36
- - Porcus   So, what's in a name? yalike, Offer my4ay? a...   Jun 27 2012, 08:39
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