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CD vs iTunes: where you buy your music?
Antigen
post Jun 14 2012, 08:40
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Hi,

actually, where is your first source of music?

Do you buy CD or you have chosen iTunes/digital online store?

Actually I buy CD (used) and I convert them with XLD to MP3 with LAME 3.99, I think that this is the best solutions.

Initially I have bought some album from iTunes, but I prefer to have the CD to convert it into the format and bitrate that I prefer.

And you?
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Engelsstaub
post Jun 14 2012, 08:50
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I prefer to archive a physical CD losslessly, but have little problem getting a copy from iTunes if it is more convenient for me.

Lately I've been taking advantage of this upswing in vinyl and buying certain releases from certain labels in that format. Especially if it comes with a CD or download card as many do. (More fun to collect.)

The format isn't quite as important to me as what's on it (and sometimes how it's mastered for that format.) I bought the new masters of Pink Floyd's "The Wall" and "Momentary Lapse of Reason" as iTunes LPs because they were cheaper than the physical copies and came with the artwork. I know I couldn't hear a bit of difference if I ABXed them with the CDs.


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soundping
post Jun 14 2012, 09:38
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Cheap Amazon or eBay CDs. smile.gif
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slks
post Jun 14 2012, 10:00
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Well, primarily I get my music from online sources - MP3 or FLAC if available. Usually not from iTunes though - although I have used it a few times, and was satisfied with it (as a store, not as an audio player).

So digital is the primary way. Probably 90% of my music, I don't own in a physical format.

With albums that are especially important to me, I'd like to own a physical copy for my collection. I used to buy CDs for this purpose, but now I do vinyl. It makes a better collectible. You get much larger artwork and neat things like colored LPs or picture discs, oftentimes goodies like posters and digital download codes too. The last time I bought a CD was 4 or 5 years ago.


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Ouroboros
post Jun 14 2012, 10:53
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CD. Downloads only if CDs aren't available. Never vinyl - it may make a better collectible (and I agree that the artwork is loads better, and I really miss the physical disc, picture discs, coloured vinyl etc.) - but it SOUNDS loads worse! smile.gif
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Porcus
post Jun 14 2012, 10:56
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QUOTE (Antigen @ Jun 14 2012, 09:40) *
Hi,

actually, where is your first source of music?

Do you buy CD or you have chosen iTunes/digital online store?



Source of 'new' (as in 'recently acquired', with 'acquired' modified for streaming)? In order:
- stream (Spotify), probably first. And when I buy a CD, I have often found it on a streaming service first (that includes youtube)
- bootleg downloads (legally a grey area in my jurisdiction)
- new CDs
- download-from-artist (e.g. Bandcamp).
Have never bought from iTunes, though I have gotten some 'iTunes bonus tracks' from artists' web sites.

Source of music which I listen to? CDs which I have ripped. Have a few thousand, and they will outweigh the others (each and added-up!) for years.

I have a lot of vinyl, which I don't listen to. (Sell? Nah ... wink.gif )


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probedb
post Jun 14 2012, 11:52
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CD if possible, FLAC download if not or MP3 if neither of those are possible.

I recently picked up the vinyl of the 40th anniversary release of Spiders From Mars purely because it came with a DVD with a variety of formats (96/24 PCM to 5.1 DD). I don't even own a record deck smile.gif

However the CDs never see a CD player, they get ripped with dbPoweramp and then stuck on a shelf to look pretty. Music is backed up locally weekly and offsite monthly. I tried Spoon's AudioSafe but it's just too slow to archive 300GB+ when you only have a 768kbps upload speed.
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RonaldDumsfeld
post Jun 14 2012, 14:16
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New vinyl > used vinyl > used CD > new CD > lossless download > lossy download.

Physical copies from brick and mortar shops (usually Berwick St, Soho) or mail order from Juno. Also amazon or Discogs in extremis.

Downloads from Beatport, Juno or occasionally via Spotify.

Listen to new stuff I might be interested in on Spotify or youtube or wherever I can find it.

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JJZolx
post Jun 14 2012, 15:11
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I've been buying a lot of used CDs, mostly for $1 to $3, from people who "got everything on the iPod". At least 600 or so in the last three years. I've found a lot of CDs, particularly jazz recordings, that are now out of print. Also bought a lot of stuff that just looked like it could be interesting, which I can only afford to do when the CD costs a buck or two.

Walked away from several "take everything for fifty bucks" deals for hundreds of CDs, and one guy selling more that 1200 CDs who would only sell them as a lot. Sometimes you just don't need any more Travis Tritt in your collection. And people selling whole collections have usually trashed most of their CDs. Amazing, too, how may people try to sell burned CD-Rs.

I've never purchased a download.
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db1989
post Jun 14 2012, 15:16
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QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jun 14 2012, 15:11) *
I've been buying a lot of used CDs, mostly for $1 to $3, from people who "got everything on the iPod".
When someone mentioned buying second-hand CDs earlier, I wondered if this was the reason for their cheapness. I’m guilty of the converse: a lot of albums in my library were ripped from CDs that I later sold (for a pittance to a second-hand shop, mostly). :S

I always wrap my mind in knots when I try to ponder the legality: in some way, the artist is losing out on a sale, as this results in two digital copies of the album (one on CD, one on HD) existing when there ‘should’ only be one.

Oh well! If I fight the law, I doubt I’ll win.
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DonP
post Jun 14 2012, 15:40
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 14 2012, 10:16) *
[
I always wrap my mind in knots when I try to ponder the legality: in some way, the artist is losing out on a sale, as this results in two digital copies of the album (one on CD, one on HD) existing when there ‘should’ only be one.

Oh well! If I fight the law, I doubt I’ll win.


AFAIK in the US if you transfer the license (aka sell/give the CD) the "fair use" aspect of your copies vanishes.
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Ouroboros
post Jun 14 2012, 15:46
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I'm the other way round - I buy second hand CDs (mostly from charity shops), rip them, then put them in storage, but never sell them. I keep all of my new CDs after ripping as well. I also wrangle, not with the legality of the second-hand CDs, but with the morality - after all, the artist got nothing when I bought the CD. My internal reconciliation is twofold:

- I have repeatedly bought new albums by artist X after first trying one of their albums second hand, so they get revenue that way
- I only buy from charity shops that (IMO) do real charitable work that I approve of, so I know that my money is being well spent on good causes.

Where I do occasionally still feel a little guilty is on the odd occasion I take my second hand CDs to a concert and get an artist to autograph them - but again, they got the revenue for the ticket / programme / T-Shirt, so maybe I should stop worrying. smile.gif

I doubt my position would stand up in court, but the charity shop is at least as guilty as I am - it takes two to conclude the transaction!
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JJZolx
post Jun 14 2012, 16:05
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 14 2012, 08:16) *
I always wrap my mind in knots when I try to ponder the legality: in some way, the artist is losing out on a sale, as this results in two digital copies of the album (one on CD, one on HD) existing when there ‘should’ only be one.


I've always heard that this was illegal, at least in the US. Something like: You have every right to make copies for your own use while you have the CD, and you have every right to sell the CD, but once you no longer possess the CD you no longer have the legal rights to any copies.

Maybe that makes me just as guilty, knowing (or not knowing) that in many cases the previous owner is keeping a copy.
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yourlord
post Jun 14 2012, 17:24
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I buy CD and rip to FLAC. When I need a copy on a space-limited device I simply transcode down to whatever lossy format the player supports. Vorbis preferred.

I tend to buy a mix of new and used CD's from online (amazon) and brick and mortar shops as I come across them.

I always keep my CD copy.. I believe in having backups, and the CD acts as a great archival physical backup. They sit in their cases, in a cool dark space, and never get used.
Plus, if RIAA ever come a knocking I can just pull out my CD collection and tell them to get bent.

I've bought maybe 2 albums in digital form, mp3 320cbr format just because they were proving to be extremely difficult to find on CD. I've since then decided I'm not paying for lossy formats anymore. I have a great disdain for the fact those albums are forever format locked to mp3 in my collection due to the further degradation transcoding to a more efficient format would incur, even if I probably wouldn't be able to hear the difference.

I've never used itunes and never will. Apple is evil and I don't intend to fund them, or use their products in any way.

This post has been edited by yourlord: Jun 14 2012, 17:27
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db1989
post Jun 14 2012, 17:40
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QUOTE (DonP @ Jun 14 2012, 15:40) *
QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 14 2012, 10:16) *
I always wrap my mind in knots when I try to ponder the legality: in some way, the artist is losing out on a sale, as this results in two digital copies of the album (one on CD, one on HD) existing when there ‘should’ only be one.

Oh well! If I fight the law, I doubt I’ll win.
AFAIK in the US if you transfer the license (aka sell/give the CD) the "fair use" aspect of your copies vanishes.
QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jun 14 2012, 16:05) *
I've always heard that this was illegal, at least in the US. Something like: You have every right to make copies for your own use while you have the CD, and you have every right to sell the CD, but once you no longer possess the CD you no longer have the legal rights to any copies.
Yeah, you both have the same presumptions as me about the legality. Does the fact that I don’t listen to much of that old stuff make me any less bad? wink.gif

QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jun 14 2012, 16:05) *
Maybe that makes me just as guilty, knowing (or not knowing) that in many cases the previous owner is keeping a copy.
Oh hey, I’m not meaning to guilt-trip anyone here – apart from myself, maybe! – just mentioning something that I thought of due to preceding discussion.

QUOTE (Ouroboros @ Jun 14 2012, 15:46) *
I'm the other way round - I buy second hand CDs (mostly from charity shops), rip them, then put them in storage, but never sell them. I keep all of my new CDs after ripping as well. I also wrangle, not with the legality of the second-hand CDs, but with the morality - after all, the artist got nothing when I bought the CD.
Maybe that makes me just as guilty, knowing (or not knowing) that in many cases the previous owner is keeping a copy.
Yeah, this is the other thing I think about, and I think meant to but somehow omitted to mention. Sure, the license is transferred, but as you said, the artist will never know of y/our appreciation – and the same considerations from above might come into play, too.

More reasons to avoid CDs, eh? biggrin.gif Although I have bought quite a few physical releases lately, something of an oddity for me.

This post has been edited by db1989: Jun 14 2012, 17:49
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mixminus1
post Jun 14 2012, 18:45
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1) FLAC downloads when available (primarily Bandcamp, and occasionally via TuneCore from an artist's website)
2) iTunes or Amazon downloads
3) CDs from Amazon for favorite albums that I'd like to have a physical copy of (which are ripped to FLAC for archival/MP3 for the iPhone and promptly stored away)

I already owned a little over 300 CDs when I started downloading FLACs and AACs/MP3s in earnest a few years ago, and now the thought of all that completely non-recyclable polycarbonate and aluminum just sitting in a CD wallet is *my* guilt trip.

Yes, there is a certain degree of permanence to a CD, but even those can't be guaranteed forever, as many occurrences of "bit rot" have shown - the "cloud" ain't exactly 100% reliable, either.

Really, the best long-term archival strategy may be burning files (in their original format, be it lossless or lossy) to the "Millennium" DVD-Rs (I'm assuming/hoping Blu-rays are coming eventually).

...oh, and I'm with Ouroboros on vinyl: love the big artwork, can't stand the various distortions and surface noises (not to mention the colossal PITA of just playing/ripping the damned things), so my vinyl library has stopped at about 30 albums.

This post has been edited by mixminus1: Jun 14 2012, 18:46


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DVDdoug
post Jun 14 2012, 19:59
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1. New CD
2. Used CD (if it's not availabe new, or if I really just want one song, etc.)
3. MP3 download (if the CD is not available, or I don't want the whole album, etc.)

I've never purchased from iTunes. Most my MP3s were ripped from my CDs (a few from borrowed CDs ohmy.gif ) . My 1st choice for downloads is Amazon, but I've also downloaded CD Universe & Rhapsody. For the most part I try to stay moral & legal, but I did illegally download one MP3 (I don't even remember what song it was, but I couldn't find it elsewhere), and I have a few more pirated MP3s given to me by friends.

When I decided to standardize on MP3, iTunes (AAC) were copy protected. If I were starting-over today, I might choose AAC and use iTunes for downloads.

Like everybody else, I'm listening to physical CDs less and less. I've had a laptop hooked-up to my living room system for a couple of years, and in the last few months I've added iPod hook-ups to both of my vehicles.

I've given-away most of my scratchy-old records left-over from the analog days. I still have a few that are not available digitally and that I've not gotten around to digitizing.

This post has been edited by DVDdoug: Jun 14 2012, 20:02
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Porcus
post Jun 14 2012, 20:30
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QUOTE (DonP @ Jun 14 2012, 16:40) *
AFAIK in the US if you transfer the license (aka sell/give the CD) the "fair use" aspect of your copies vanishes.

IANAL, but the obvious mistake in your reasoning is that you have bought into the MAFIAA's lie that you need a 'license' to play a CD. You don't. You buy a musical CD (... files might differ, not to mention streams, again, IANAL), just like you buy today's newspaper. Even under US legislation.

Therefore, your rights are not a matter of a 'license' (i.e. a contract set up by the record company), but a matter of what the law (and the courts) say you are allowed to do with things you own. (However, rightsholders might of course extend your rights, for example by handing a recording over to the public domain. The issue is, what are your minimum rights which they cannot deny you.) And, assuming that your copy is legal in the first place, it is not owned by the record company. Whether your legal copy remains a legal copy after you have sold (or lost!) the original, is a question which I will not try to give an answer to, but it isn't a matter of license, as there is none.

A couple of opinions on this and related matters:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/selling...#comment-340568
http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/02/6190-2/


(Luckily I live in a more civilized jurisdiction, but I am not even sure whether it has ever been clarified whether I can legally bring my cellphone into the US without deleting the mp3's on it. As they were created (and then copied onto the phone) outside US jurisdiction, they might not be protected: http://www.brdwlaw.com/blog/2011/08/first-...e-is-no-s.shtml .)

This post has been edited by Porcus: Jun 14 2012, 20:36


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db1989
post Jun 14 2012, 20:45
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 14 2012, 20:30) *
QUOTE (John Atkinson)
QUOTE (Elk)
In the upcoming issue of Playback magazine there will be an article addressing compression and audibility. The author compares the output of the original versus the compressed version on a matched bit-for-bit basis to determine if there are measurable differences. The comparison reveals differences in both frequency and amplitude. Both the article and the responses should prove interesting.
I have done this with earlier lossy codecs and reported on the results in Stereophile, if I remember correctly. Listening to the difference file is very instructive, as you hear all manner of cyclical errors and noise modulations, as well as variable frequency content. Perhaps I should post some of these files in our website archives, for readers to listen to and learn what musical information is being discarded by the codec.
DERP.
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dumdidum
post Jun 14 2012, 21:11
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one thing that bothers me is that some albums are more expensive as a FLAC download than as a (new) CD. that makes little sense to me given that a CD album is costlier to manufacture and distribute than a FLAC album. in any case, i put a little bit of value on the artwork and the backup functionality of an actual CD so I sometimes purchase CDs if they cost the same or ever-so-slightly-more than the lossless download. (but i'd prefer much more to purchase the lossless download at a significant discount over the CD.)

i also go for used & new CDs if i know or find out that the download comes from a different & inferior master.

i like house music and, unfortunately, there are quite a few vinyl-only releases in that genre, even today. so i still buy vinyl as well.

if lossless download is unavailable, i might purchase lossy. but it's actually pretty rare with contemporary electronic music releases that it's available as a download but exclusively as a lossy download.
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Engelsstaub
post Jun 14 2012, 23:15
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Jun 14 2012, 14:30) *
(Luckily I live in a more civilized jurisdiction...


I don't wish to argue with you as I agree with the rest of your sentiments but...

I could think of far less trivial things to make such nationalistic and offensive comments over. None of them fall under topics within the scope of this forum, though. Norway is a great country and you should have some pride in your homeland, but clichéd snobbery (at best) is just an invitation to flaming.


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kornchild2002
post Jun 14 2012, 23:18
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I used to primarily buy CDs so that I could have a lossless archive of my music. My buying preferences have drastically changed over the last few years where I now primarily buy musing through the iTunes Store. I will buy some albums/songs from the Amazon mp3 store if they are on sale. Then I usually swap them out for 256kbps AAC iTunes Store versions since I like having my lossy library matching in terms of file type and encoding setting. I will buy a CD only if it comes with special "CD only" content and/or if it is less expensive than downloading through iTunes. I will also buy CDs when I go to festivals as I can get them signed or from the artists that I really want a physical copy for. I would say about 90-95% of my music purchases come from the iTunes Store.
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2Bdecided
post Jun 18 2012, 14:06
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CDs. Prices for new (i.e. not used) CDs that are more than a couple of years old just keep getting cheaper and cheaper.

The format can't have long left now. Which may prevent me from running out of space wink.gif

Cheers,
David.
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rohangc
post Jun 19 2012, 04:40
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CDs only. I am not a big fan of "digital purchases".
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odious malefacto...
post Jun 19 2012, 05:05
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QUOTE (rohangc @ Jun 18 2012, 19:40) *
CDs only. I am not a big fan of "digital purchases".


CDs are inherently digital.
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