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Interpolation of Clipping and Bit-Rate Questions., Adobe Audition Help for a Noob.
Engelsstaub
post Jun 14 2012, 03:06
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I've been testing out the trial of Adobe Audition and have noticed that it is a bit more detailed in analyzing and manipulating peaks and "clips" than Audacity. My immediate example is a needle-drop of Krisiun's "The Great Execution." (One track--1st illustration below.) The CD and iTunes Matched AAC files are a complete mess in that most of the entire recording is clipped or squashed or whatever. (Same track--second illustration below.) (Krisiun is a Brazilian "death metal" band, so there's quite a bit of sound anyway!)

LP Rip @ 16/44.1


iTunes Matched AAC file



If you look at the needledrop in the first illustration you'll notice five places (bottom/right channel) where the sound clipped for a small fraction of a second. I was thinking of zooming in and doing a simple "auto heal" on those as I'm very pleased with the sound of this album when burned to Redbook CD-R. You'll also notice that, if you look at the bottom-right of both illustrations, that Audition is working at 16-bit for the vinyl rip (recorded at 16/44) and 32-bit float for the iTunes AAC file.

Some questions: will working on those few clipped samples and exporting the results at the same bit-rate reduce the quality of the original recording? Why does Audition indicate that it is working at 32-bit float for a 16/44 AAC file while it remains at 16-bit for the FLAC?




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AndyH-ha
post Jun 14 2012, 05:53
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Working in 32 bit floating point, even if the original recording is 16 bit, is much more accurate. The quantization errors, which you cannot avoid, regardless of format, are much smaller. Doing transforms in 16 bit will often produce distortion and noise which are visible in the spectral view and the frequency analysis graph (this is much more true in simple generated waveforms, not often visible in the massive visual confusion of real music). So, the theoretical results are perhaps an order of magnitude "higher quality" when the standard is comparison to the starting waveform. However, if you dither the transform, there will be only extra noise, no distortion.

On the subjective side, will you be able to hear a difference? Again, with digitally generated, or well captured and recorded, simple signal (e.g. a pure sine wave) definite audible differences can exist. With music, especially something you've recorded from an LP, something audible is rather unlikely.
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Engelsstaub
post Jun 14 2012, 06:54
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QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 13 2012, 23:53) *
Working in 32 bit floating point, even if the original recording is 16 bit, is much more accurate...


Luckily for me I just realized that VinylStudio will export a copy of my existing 16/44.1 FLAC saves as 32-bit float WAV or AIFF (at whatever bit-depth.) I guess if I do it that way; importing it then into Audition, it would be far "better" academically. Would that be feasible in your opinion, Andy? At 32-float/44.1 then just export from Audition at 16/44.1 again?

The reason I'm worried about all of this is I want to archive some decent vinyls as appropriately as possible. I'm no professional, but (for the asking price of Adobe Audition) I'd really like to get professional results. I prefer CD if all things are equal, but many of my even recent LPs (such as this one which was released in 2011) just aren't maxed and clipped like what those "professionals" ended up putting on the CD. (I wish some of you guys here, who know a hell of a lot more about this stuff than me, were working for these recording studios! CDs would get the treatment they deserve.)


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Engelsstaub
post Jun 14 2012, 08:37
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These are the settings I used in converting the sample-type back to 16-bit FLAC from 32-bit/44.1 AIFF. Hopefully someone can correct me if I should change the dither-type or turn on noise-shaping?



Sorry about the questions...I really wish I could take a course on this sort of stuff smile.gif


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Posts in this topic
- Engelsstaub   Interpolation of Clipping and Bit-Rate Questions.   Jun 14 2012, 03:06
- - saratoga   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jun 13 2012, 22:06) ...   Jun 14 2012, 03:14
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (saratoga @ Jun 13 2012, 21:14) ......   Jun 14 2012, 04:12
- - Ron Jones   To clarify, you're bringing 32-bit float files...   Jun 14 2012, 04:36
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Ron Jones @ Jun 13 2012, 22:36) To...   Jun 14 2012, 04:47
- - AndyH-ha   Working in 32 bit floating point, even if the orig...   Jun 14 2012, 05:53
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 13 2012, 23:53...   Jun 14 2012, 06:54
|- - Engelsstaub   These are the settings I used in converting the sa...   Jun 14 2012, 08:37
- - AndyH-ha   dither bit depth 0.5 bits p.d.f. shaped triangular...   Jun 14 2012, 11:49
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 14 2012, 05:49...   Jun 14 2012, 23:38
- - stephan_g   What does the recording side look like (hardware, ...   Jun 14 2012, 23:42
- - saratoga   Assuming he has a preamp that let's him set th...   Jun 14 2012, 23:49
- - Engelsstaub   In this instance the recording was done with a Pro...   Jun 14 2012, 23:52
- - stephan_g   I doubt it is any more "premium" than yo...   Jun 15 2012, 10:51
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (stephan_g @ Jun 15 2012, 05:51) Ma...   Jun 15 2012, 19:54
|- - stephan_g   QUOTE (stephan_g @ Jun 15 2012, 11:51) An...   Jun 18 2012, 21:08
|- - Kees de Visser   QUOTE (stephan_g @ Jun 18 2012, 22:08) He...   Jun 19 2012, 08:33
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Kees de Visser @ Jun 19 2012, 02:3...   Jun 19 2012, 12:18
|- - uart   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jun 19 2012, 04:18) ...   Jun 19 2012, 13:01
- - Engelsstaub   An Audigy SE is out for me...I do my stuff on a Ma...   Jun 15 2012, 11:27
|- - stephan_g   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jun 15 2012, 12:27) ...   Jun 15 2012, 17:06
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (stephan_g @ Jun 15 2012, 11:06) .....   Jun 16 2012, 03:01
- - AndyH-ha   Are you sure about Audition doing something at 32 ...   Jun 16 2012, 08:07
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 16 2012, 02:07...   Jun 16 2012, 08:29
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 16 2012, 02:07...   Jun 18 2012, 10:42
- - AndyH-ha   The documentation is awkward. What is "best a...   Jun 18 2012, 13:38
- - AndyH-ha   The "32 bit" in their table seems to be ...   Jun 18 2012, 13:43
- - Engelsstaub   I guess it is too generic. I suppose I was just be...   Jun 18 2012, 14:00
- - Engelsstaub   I'm glad you got it figured out I'm not ...   Jun 19 2012, 05:04


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