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[TOS #2 foodfight] From: 24/96 releases sometimes just upscaled 16/44?, From Topic ID: 95343
db1989
post Jun 3 2012, 15:07
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QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 14:43) *
I know many people have developed a special attachment to the CD format - its 16-bits, 44.1kHz sample rate, and its simple interpolation of missing samples to "hide" its read errors represent an almost God-like perfection. This not only brings a great deal of comfort and reassurance to its devotees, but gives the format a unique property or 'essence' which means it can never be bettered.

As one of the deluded and unenlightened heathens who finds himself unsatisfied with CD, I can only beg my superiors to show mercy in shielding me from biased moderation, and from attacks upon my audio equipment, my hearing, my sanity and my brain's ability to adequately perceive not only sound, but the rest of the universe around me.

You could have just asked your question without baiting the majority of our membership in this flagrant violation of TOS #2. You say you donít want to risk being moderated, yet you include hyperbolic drivel like this?

You should also refrain from citing your own ďGod-likeĒ physiology if you donít have double-blind results to back it up. Thatíd be violating TOS #8 as well as #2.

The remainder of your post can stand for discussion, but cut out the exaggerated victim act (well, a victim due to your own cruelly misunderstood superiority, I presume).
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Willakan
post Jun 3 2012, 17:26
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So, the OP has yet to discover the merits of not being ridiculously condescending when he wants a question answered...

If you're going to be condescending, at least deign to be right.
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andy o
post Jun 4 2012, 04:01
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QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 14:04) *
PS. It would be rather unfortunate if this thread were to turn into "yet another analogue vs digital debate", all because my original post insulted certain people's "religion".
Hmm evidence, vs. faith and personal experience. I wonder which side you're on, and which side religion is on.
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db1989
post Jun 4 2012, 16:24
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QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 15:16) *
QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 4 2012, 06:53) *
'fails gracefully? "subjectively usable dynamic range'? capturing extra 'information'?
Welcome to analogue recording - things aren't so clean-cut as with digital are they.
Remove the suffix ď-cutĒ and we might all be able to gravitate towards a consensus here!

QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 15:16) *
QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 4 2012, 06:53) *
QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 22:04) *
PS. It would be rather unfortunate if this thread were to turn into "yet another analogue vs digital debate", all because my original post insulted certain people's "religion".
PS I took you not to be a troll, but now I wonder.
My original post was about sourcing genuine native 24/96 recordings to try out on my new soundcard - nothing more.
I anticipated the instinctive rush to defend the holy redbook, which is why I begged my superiors to show me mercy. What more did you want?
No, what happened is that you felt the need to preface a legitimate question with a sarcastic mono-trollo-logue derived from your own agenda against (CD)DA and are now using the same tone to play indignance for being called out about it. Itís probably best that you go back to pretending it never happened.
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jamie_P84
post Jun 4 2012, 18:03
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 4 2012, 16:24) *
No, what happened is that you felt the need to preface a legitimate question with a sarcastic mono-trollo-logue derived from your own agenda against (CD)DA and are now using the same tone to play indignance for being called out about it. Itís probably best that you go back to pretending it never happened.

It's a great shame that so many people become defensive and hostile when their holy grail is rejected by others.
I stand by everything I said in my original post, with no urge to "pretend it never happened".
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greynol
post Jun 4 2012, 18:05
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QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 10:03) *
It's a great shame that so many people become defensive and hostile when their holy grail is rejected by others.
I stand by everything I said in my original post, with no urge to "pretend it never happened".

Projecting much?

I recommend you save a little face and quit with the faith-based language. You're looking pretty silly.

This post has been edited by greynol: Jun 4 2012, 18:14


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Wombat
post Jun 4 2012, 19:51
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QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 15:43) *
I know many people have developed a special attachment to the CD format - its 16-bits, 44.1kHz sample rate, and its simple interpolation of missing samples to "hide" its read errors represent an almost God-like perfection. This not only brings a great deal of comfort and reassurance to its devotees, but gives the format a unique property or 'essence' which means it can never be bettered.

As one of the deluded and unenlightened heathens who finds himself unsatisfied with CD, I can only beg my superiors to show mercy in shielding me from biased moderation, and from attacks upon my audio equipment, my hearing, my sanity and my brain's ability to adequately perceive not only sound, but the rest of the universe around me.

Alone this sentense shows you think this forum is no good or maintained by wrongly acting mods but you still feel you need to post a question in the same post you insult?
If that is not trolling, what is?
For the moderation this means they already showed to much mercy imho. They should simply save Hydrogenaudio free of these discussions.
I like Hydrogenaudio especialy for that. Esotheric fuzzy talk can be done elsewhere much easier.

And please, you people that feel smart to answer questions asked that way with having in mind to strike back with knowledge i learned it isnīt worth it. You loose energy here you better spend on worthwhile topics. In the end you and others may loose interest to ever post again. This is the way trolling works and destroys.
These Trolls should never be feeded no matter how, this golden rule is really worth to follow.

I have the feeling these days many people try to outsmart evolution with giving to much credit in watching spectral views, not trusting the limits of the human auditory canal anymore.
This may be explained to some degree with the success of several superhero movies lately. Everyone wants to be a bit like that smile.gif

Donīt take my post to personal but i think some forums have to draw the line more drastic and need unpopular management to guarantee some standard for the future. If we start to argue about things of the twilight zone as if it were facts to often it would be no good in the long run.

To the justifiable question about finding releases with ultrasonic content you may try to google for HDtracks + spectral. This will give you plenty of hits with coloured pictures of releases that may be what you are looking for.
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jamie_P84
post Jun 4 2012, 21:48
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QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jun 4 2012, 21:29) *
QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 19:04) *
If a 24/96 master is not available, why bother releasing on the high resolution formats at all?

You get extra money from people who buy 24/96 DVD-As just for the higher numbers. Didn't you prove that yourself by buying 24/96 DVD-As which clearly are just upsampled CDs? To be fair, no one can know beforehand that they're being screwed over, but what they can know is that they essentially buy snake oil, or a solution to a nonexistent problem.

I do see some merit in DVD-A releases though, in cases where the CD masters are so fucked up by loudness war engineers that you want to get your hands on a presumably proper master. But certainly not for the ultrasonics.

And certainly not for the 24-bits either, surely?! Or is your faith in CD slipping? I think you ought to publically reaffirm your devotion to the holy redbook.
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jamie_P84
post Jun 4 2012, 21:52
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QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 4 2012, 19:31) *
Ok, but again, how did you determine there is a "problem"?

How does a religious fanatic determine whether there is a "problem"? He steps outside his own box and looks at the alternatives.
(no superhero costumes required).

This post has been edited by jamie_P84: Jun 4 2012, 21:53
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greynol
post Jun 4 2012, 23:37
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QUOTE (Willakan @ Jun 3 2012, 09:26) *
So, the OP has yet to discover the merits of not being ridiculously condescending when he wants a question answered...

I wonder if his being in his very early 20s has anything to do with it. wink.gif


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greynol
post Jun 4 2012, 23:41
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QUOTE (Ron Jones @ Jun 4 2012, 15:35) *
I can provide you with some non-musical samples guaranteed not to be rolled off at 22 kHz, if that's all you really want.

Make sure the content is only >=22k, is close to full-scale and recommend that he continue to turn up the volume until something up there can be heard. shifty.gif

This post has been edited by greynol: Jun 5 2012, 00:27


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jamie_P84
post Jun 5 2012, 00:23
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QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 4 2012, 23:41) *
Make sure the content is only >=22k, is close to full-scale and recommend that he continue to turn up the volume until something up there can be heard. shifty.gif

So now you're seeking to hurt my young ears and damage my speakers? I must've really hit a raw nerve.
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greynol
post Jun 5 2012, 00:27
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You're sure to hear all that stuff long before any damage is done, so what's the problem?

Just trying to give you what you want, after all. smile.gif





Maybe someone feeling charitable towards this dilemma can write a plugin to exercise those bars in the spectrum above 20k so that people like Jamie can be at ease when they "listen" to their high res files. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by greynol: Jun 5 2012, 00:29


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jamie_P84
post Jun 5 2012, 00:48
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QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 5 2012, 00:27) *
You're sure to hear all that stuff long before any damage is done, so what's the problem?

Just trying to give you what you want, after all. smile.gif

Maybe someone feeling charitable towards this dilemma can write a plugin to exercise those bars in the spectrum above 20k so that people like Jamie can be at ease when they "listen" to their high res files. biggrin.gif

I'm curious as to what you seek to achieve by your conduct towards me in this thread?
If you're trying to impress me in some strange way, it isn't working.
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db1989
post Jun 5 2012, 01:01
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I donít know where to begin cleaning up this mess.
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jamie_P84
post Jun 5 2012, 01:15
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 5 2012, 01:01) *
I donít know where to begin cleaning up this mess.

Just cross out or censor all the bits you don't like (ideally under the banner of "righteousness", "knowledge" or "science").
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db1989
post Jun 5 2012, 01:19
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Iím more and more inclined to just lock it altogether.

You really want your little childish fight, donít you? Does it make you feel more righteous to continually play the persecution card?

Isnít it enough for you that people took the time to assemble a discussion around the salvageable portion of your initial post, when they would have been quite legitimate just to ignore it on the basis of your childish tirade and thoroughly disrespectful tone?

The Recycle Bin just gets fuller.
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jamie_P84
post Jun 5 2012, 20:23
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QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 5 2012, 19:23) *
Strange definitions abound: dogmatism, religion and now skepticism. Funny how people who demand objective evidence for proof of falsifiable claims are being branded as religious and dogmatic by "skeptics".

Redbook was casually put down, then redbook was "defended" - you should be happy now?

This post has been edited by greynol: Jun 5 2012, 21:26
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rick.hughes
post Jun 5 2012, 20:39
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QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 5 2012, 15:23) *
Redbook was casually put down, then redbook was "defended" - you should be happy now?

Obvious troll is obvious
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Jun 5 2012, 21:12
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QUOTE (rick.hughes @ Jun 5 2012, 15:39) *
QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 5 2012, 15:23) *
Redbook was casually put down, then redbook was "defended" - you should be happy now?

Obvious troll is obvious


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jamie_P84
post Jun 6 2012, 15:04
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QUOTE (pdq @ Jun 5 2012, 21:08) *
So, if someone came here claming that the world is flat, and we offered proof that it is not, does that make us closed-minded?

I guess one's own beliefs feel a lot stronger when placed alongside unrelated well-established scientific facts (such as the round earth).

You felt genuinely entitled to draw the analogy though and I do sympathise; dear old Arnold (his notoriety preceded him incidentally) sounds just like a real expert, and all the stuff he thinks he knows supports your own faith in redbook.

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sld
post Jun 6 2012, 18:59
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QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 6 2012, 22:04) *
You felt genuinely entitled to draw the analogy though and I do sympathise; dear old Arnold (his notoriety preceded him incidentally) sounds just like a real expert, and all the stuff he thinks he knows supports your own faith in redbook.

So that's it. Axe to grind. Chip on shoulder.
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greynol
post Jun 6 2012, 19:10
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QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 6 2012, 07:04) *
I guess one's own beliefs feel a lot stronger when placed alongside unrelated well-established scientific facts (such as the round earth).

QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 10:04) *
I wouldn't expect to buy a movie on Blu-Ray for example, only to find that it had been upconverted from DVD-quality video, when a high definition master was known to exist.



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cpchan
post Jun 6 2012, 19:42
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QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 6 2012, 10:04) *
You felt genuinely entitled to draw the analogy though and I do sympathise; dear old Arnold (his notoriety preceded him incidentally) sounds just like a real expert, and all the stuff he thinks he knows supports your own faith in redbook.


I know someone have lost the argument when he has to resort to argumentum ad hominem. Please go back to under your bridge.

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andy o
post Jun 6 2012, 19:48
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QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 6 2012, 07:04) *
QUOTE (pdq @ Jun 5 2012, 21:08) *
So, if someone came here claming that the world is flat, and we offered proof that it is not, does that make us closed-minded?

I guess one's own beliefs feel a lot stronger when placed alongside unrelated well-established scientific facts (such as the round earth).
Different areas of science, even acoustics and astronomy, still have to agree with the same principles and follow the same method of discovery.

QUOTE
You felt genuinely entitled to draw the analogy though and I do sympathise; dear old Arnold (his notoriety preceded him incidentally) sounds just like a real expert, and all the stuff he thinks he knows supports your own faith in redbook.

And you sound like the real expert on backhanded, condescending compliments.
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