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24/96 releases sometimes just upscaled 16/44?
jamie_P84
post Jun 3 2012, 14:43
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I know many people have developed a special attachment to the CD format - its 16-bits, 44.1kHz sample rate, and its simple interpolation of missing samples to "hide" its read errors represent an almost God-like perfection. This not only brings a great deal of comfort and reassurance to its devotees, but gives the format a unique property or 'essence' which means it can never be bettered.

As one of the deluded and unenlightened heathens who finds himself unsatisfied with CD, I can only beg my superiors to show mercy in shielding me from biased moderation, and from attacks upon my audio equipment, my hearing, my sanity and my brain's ability to adequately perceive not only sound, but the rest of the universe around me.


With that in mind, I have the following quick question:
For test purposes I have acquired a small number of 24-bit 96kHz lossless audio files derived from DVD-A and SACD releases. However, a spectrum analysis of their content always shows a sharp roll-off at either 22050Hz or 24000Hz, suggesting that these releases are nothing more than upscaled versions of previous 16-bit 44.1 or 48kHz releases (complete with the so-called 'loudness war' compression in most cases).

So, is it normal for these high resolution releases to be upscaled?
Which DVD-Audio/SACD releases are known to be genuine 24/96?

Thanks,
jamie.

This post has been edited by db1989: Jun 5 2012, 00:54
Reason for edit: Stop it. Reference: http://hydrogenaudio.org/forums/?showtopic=95366
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Canar
post Jun 7 2012, 03:15
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You missed an important point that I explicitly made: proving that you cannot hear a difference between Redbook and high-res is impossible, as it is a null hypothesis. You can only reject it or fail to reject it. The latter option is and has always been the status quo.

You can, provided you actually hear a difference, reject the null hypothesis to a quantifiable probability. This has never been done in any way that is undeniable.

For comparison, it's rather easy to reject the null hypothesis that 8-bit and 16-bit audio cannot be distinguished.


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jamie_P84
post Jun 7 2012, 03:35
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QUOTE (Canar @ Jun 7 2012, 03:15) *
You missed an important point that I explicitly made: proving that you cannot hear a difference between Redbook and high-res is impossible, as it is a null hypothesis. You can only reject it or fail to reject it. The latter option is and has always been the status quo.

You can, provided you actually hear a difference, reject the null hypothesis to a quantifiable probability. This has never been done in any way that is undeniable.

For comparison, it's rather easy to reject the null hypothesis that 8-bit and 16-bit audio cannot be distinguished.

You've put forward your thesis more than once now, so can you defend it? What evidence do you have to prove your case?
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Posts in this topic
- jamie_P84   24/96 releases sometimes just upscaled 16/44?   Jun 3 2012, 14:43
- - uart   I don't know the answer to your specific track...   Jun 3 2012, 15:04
|- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (uart @ Jun 3 2012, 15:04) I'm ...   Jun 3 2012, 16:45
|- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 16:45) You...   Jun 4 2012, 00:30
- - Kohlrabi   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 15:43) So,...   Jun 3 2012, 16:09
- - greynol   It might be worth considering whether this "p...   Jun 3 2012, 16:48
- - krabapple   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 09:43) So,...   Jun 3 2012, 17:46
|- - uart   QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 3 2012, 08:46) I...   Jun 3 2012, 18:06
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (uart @ Jun 3 2012, 13:06) You must...   Jun 3 2012, 18:55
|- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 3 2012, 17:46) Let...   Jun 3 2012, 18:10
|- - Nessuno   I find this obsession for ultrasonic frequencies a...   Jun 3 2012, 18:20
- - krabapple   Here's one. From Neil Young's "Harve...   Jun 3 2012, 18:00
|- - uart   QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 3 2012, 09:00) Her...   Jun 3 2012, 18:13
|- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (uart @ Jun 3 2012, 18:13) Thanks f...   Jun 3 2012, 18:44
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 13:44) Ori...   Jun 3 2012, 19:08
|||- - bandpass   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 13:44) Ori...   Jun 3 2012, 19:51
|||- - Nessuno   QUOTE (bandpass @ Jun 3 2012, 20:51) Freq...   Jun 3 2012, 20:40
|||- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (bandpass @ Jun 3 2012, 19:51) ATR ...   Jun 3 2012, 22:04
|||- - greynol   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 14:04) PS....   Jun 3 2012, 22:56
|||- - krabapple   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 17:04) Pro...   Jun 4 2012, 06:53
||||- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 4 2012, 06:53) LPs...   Jun 4 2012, 15:16
||||- - Kohlrabi   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 16:16) As ...   Jun 4 2012, 16:41
|||||- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jun 4 2012, 16:41) You ...   Jun 4 2012, 18:04
|||||- - greynol   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 10:04) pri...   Jun 4 2012, 18:11
||||||- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 4 2012, 18:11) QUOTE...   Jun 4 2012, 18:21
|||||- - Kohlrabi   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 19:04) If ...   Jun 4 2012, 21:29
||||- - krabapple   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 10:16) QUO...   Jun 5 2012, 04:13
|||||- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 5 2012, 04:13) QUO...   Jun 5 2012, 15:00
|||||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 5 2012, 10:00) So,...   Jun 5 2012, 15:21
|||||- - greynol   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 5 2012, 07:00) So,...   Jun 5 2012, 15:29
||||||- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 5 2012, 15:29) Peopl...   Jun 5 2012, 15:54
||||||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 5 2012, 10:54) QUO...   Jun 5 2012, 15:59
|||||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 5 2012, 10:00) ] ...   Jun 5 2012, 15:54
|||||- - krabapple   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 5 2012, 10:00) So,...   Jun 5 2012, 16:35
|||||- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 5 2012, 16:35) You...   Jun 5 2012, 17:24
|||||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 5 2012, 12:24) QUO...   Jun 5 2012, 18:02
|||||- - saratoga   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 5 2012, 12:24) QUO...   Jun 5 2012, 22:02
||||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 10:16) QUO...   Jun 5 2012, 13:33
||||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jun 5 2012, 08...   Jun 5 2012, 17:53
||||- - sld   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jun 6 2012, 00...   Jun 5 2012, 19:12
|||- - greynol   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 14:04) Dyn...   Jun 5 2012, 14:35
|||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 14:04) Dyn...   Jun 5 2012, 15:06
||- - Kees de Visser   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 19:44) Ori...   Jun 4 2012, 09:38
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Kees de Visser @ Jun 4 2012, 04:38...   Jun 4 2012, 13:31
||- - uart   Hi Arnold, I love to see actual measurements like ...   Jun 4 2012, 14:57
|||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (uart @ Jun 4 2012, 09:57) Hi Arnol...   Jun 5 2012, 13:23
||- - uart   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jun 4 2012, 04...   Jun 4 2012, 16:55
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (uart @ Jun 4 2012, 11:55) QUOTE (A...   Jun 5 2012, 14:52
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (uart @ Jun 3 2012, 13:13) Given th...   Jun 3 2012, 19:13
|- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 3 2012, 19:13) QUO...   Jun 3 2012, 22:14
- - krabapple   Here's another -- Deep Purple Machine Head DVD...   Jun 3 2012, 19:18
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 3 2012, 20:18) Tha...   Jun 3 2012, 23:29
- - Ron Jones   The last Nine Inch Nails album, The Slip, had a fe...   Jun 4 2012, 01:44
- - greynol   Arnold is just performing some processing and then...   Jun 4 2012, 15:17
|- - uart   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 4 2012, 06:17) Arnol...   Jun 4 2012, 15:33
- - greynol   I guess they didn't count on their customer ba...   Jun 4 2012, 16:50
- - uart   BTW. I assume the gain settings for the recording ...   Jun 4 2012, 17:14
- - greynol   I suggested you consider whether you're actual...   Jun 4 2012, 18:25
|- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 4 2012, 18:25) I sug...   Jun 4 2012, 18:28
- - greynol   ...which I read, I assure you. So much for trying...   Jun 4 2012, 18:31
|- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 4 2012, 18:31) ...wh...   Jun 4 2012, 19:26
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 4 2012, 14:26) But...   Jun 5 2012, 13:15
- - greynol   Ok, but again, how did you determine there is a ...   Jun 4 2012, 19:31
- - Ron Jones   I can provide you with some non-musical samples gu...   Jun 4 2012, 23:35
- - db1989   Some people: Stop the stupid troll-bait. Some oth...   Jun 5 2012, 01:15
- - greynol   IIRC and do correct me if I'm wrong, the modul...   Jun 5 2012, 05:38
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 5 2012, 00:38) IIRC ...   Jun 5 2012, 13:11
- - greynol   I see Arny has reposted his list from what, only a...   Jun 5 2012, 15:33
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (greynol @ Jun 5 2012, 10:33) I see...   Jun 5 2012, 15:39
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jun 5 2012, 07...   Jun 5 2012, 15:52
- - Martel   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 3 2012, 15:43) How...   Jun 5 2012, 17:43
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Martel @ Jun 5 2012, 12:43) QUOTE ...   Jun 5 2012, 17:59
- - greynol   Strange definitions abound: dogmatism, religion an...   Jun 5 2012, 19:23
- - pdq   So, if someone came here claming that the world is...   Jun 5 2012, 21:08
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (pdq @ Jun 5 2012, 16:08) So, if so...   Jun 6 2012, 02:38
- - mjb2006   Just to pile on, the 26 KHz hearing claim has to b...   Jun 5 2012, 22:20
- - Kohlrabi   You seem to still misunderstand. Redbook is not su...   Jun 6 2012, 15:13
|- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jun 6 2012, 15:13) You ...   Jun 6 2012, 22:37
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 6 2012, 17:37) QUO...   Jun 7 2012, 01:37
- - Willakan   @OP: Coherent points to your *argument* or bugger ...   Jun 6 2012, 20:32
- - Canar   Hypothesis: High-res audio is audibly superior to ...   Jun 6 2012, 23:16
- - Kohlrabi   It's true, I am a believer. I believe in Scien...   Jun 6 2012, 23:49
|- - Canar   QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Jun 6 2012, 15:49) EDIT...   Jun 7 2012, 01:02
- - Ron Jones   Jamie: At this time, what is it that you're lo...   Jun 7 2012, 01:34
|- - db1989   I hate this thread so much. QUOTE (Ron Jones ...   Jun 7 2012, 04:57
|- - Kohlrabi   QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 7 2012, 05:57) I hate...   Jun 7 2012, 09:37
- - jamie_P84   So to summarise, Canar and Kohlrabi both undoubted...   Jun 7 2012, 01:56
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 6 2012, 20:56) So ...   Jun 7 2012, 03:19
- - Canar   You missed an important point that I explicitly ma...   Jun 7 2012, 03:15
|- - jamie_P84   QUOTE (Canar @ Jun 7 2012, 03:15) You mis...   Jun 7 2012, 03:35
|- - Canar   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 6 2012, 19:35) You...   Jun 7 2012, 03:57
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (Canar @ Jun 6 2012, 22:57) QUOTE (...   Jun 7 2012, 05:50
||- - dhromed   QUOTE (Canar @ Jun 7 2012, 04:57) QUOTE (...   Jun 7 2012, 09:22
||- - julf   QUOTE (dhromed @ Jun 7 2012, 10:22) I can...   Jun 15 2012, 20:24
|- - Willakan   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 7 2012, 03:35) QUO...   Jun 7 2012, 10:35
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (jamie_P84 @ Jun 6 2012, 22:35) You...   Jun 7 2012, 12:25
- - Zarggg   Jamie seems to think that the scientific method is...   Jun 7 2012, 06:44


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