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Extracting FLAC files from CD with EAC
jaz012
post May 29 2012, 20:33
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Hi all,
I'm new to all this and have some questions that would be great to have answered. Basically, I would like to make "perfect" or "near perfect" copies of my cd's and rather than do this multiple times, it would be good to get it right the first time (rather than learn of all the mistakes I made at a later date and then redo it). Ideally, I would prefer to keep the copying times somewhat short so I am willing to sacrifice a little quality for that. I did a test run with a CD in different ways so I hope that can help in this discussion.

First off, I went through this configuring the options exactly the way they recommended:
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...xact_Audio_Copy
[snip]

Secondly, I followed these instructions to try it out:
http://home.scarlet.be/spb2267/

1. There is a default bitrate in “Compression Options” of 768 kBit/s and it says something about how you can ignore this option and customize it later. But I saw no indication of a place to adjust this setting when I did my extraction. So I'm not sure how to proceed with regards to the bitrate and what bitrate level to choose.

2. I used "Test and Copy Selected Tracks - Compressed" in Secure mode and it took 18 minutes for the CD to finish. When I selected "Drive is capable of retrieving C2 error information" in the Drive Options it cut down the time to 10 minutes. I did perform the “Examine C2 Feature” to make sure that my drive can detect those errors and it did find them on a scratched CD so C2 does seem to work. Therefore I assume that this is the best way to do this for me (the Accurate Rip checkbox was checked but greyed out). Is it the best way? If not what is and why?

3. To know that everything went well, I just need to look for the perfect finish and all are "OK" in the CRC catgory, right? I won't be missing anything that I will later regret when it comes to errors etc.?

4. Gaps: Here is my cue sheet (also there are no gaps mentioned in the gap column of EAC except for the first track). The Index numbers seem strange to me. Are they good?:

CODE
REM GENRE Soul
REM DATE 2011
REM DISCID B10BDC0E
REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v1.0b3"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
TITLE "The Best Of The Great American Songbook"
FILE "01 Long Ago And Far Away.wav" WAVE
TRACK 01 AUDIO
TITLE "Long Ago And Far Away"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY0500726
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "02 Someone To Watch Over Me.wav" WAVE
TRACK 02 AUDIO
TITLE "Someone To Watch Over Me"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY1000260
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "03 They Can't Take That Away From Me.wav" WAVE
TRACK 03 AUDIO
TITLE "They Can't Take That Away From Me"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY0200274
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "04 Beyond The Sea.wav" WAVE
TRACK 04 AUDIO
TITLE "Beyond The Sea"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY1000121
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "05 You'll Never Know.wav" WAVE
TRACK 05 AUDIO
TITLE "You'll Never Know"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY1000256
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "06 Time After Time.wav" WAVE
TRACK 06 AUDIO
TITLE "Time After Time"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY0300312
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "07 I Can't Get Started.wav" WAVE
TRACK 07 AUDIO
TITLE "I Can't Get Started"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY0400390
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "08 The Way You Look Tonight.wav" WAVE
TRACK 08 AUDIO
TITLE "The Way You Look Tonight"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY0200275
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "09 Bye Bye Blackbird.wav" WAVE
TRACK 09 AUDIO
TITLE "Bye Bye Blackbird"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY1000258
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "10 These Foolish Things.wav" WAVE
TRACK 10 AUDIO
TITLE "These Foolish Things"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY0200277
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "11 But Not For Me.wav" WAVE
TRACK 11 AUDIO
TITLE "But Not For Me"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY0400394
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "12 What A Wonderful World.wav" WAVE
TRACK 12 AUDIO
TITLE "What A Wonderful World"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY0400381
INDEX 01 00:00:00
TRACK 13 AUDIO
TITLE "My Foolish Beast"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY1000126
INDEX 00 03:27:04
FILE "13 My Foolish Beast.wav" WAVE
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "14 I'll Be Seeing You.wav" WAVE
TRACK 14 AUDIO
TITLE "I'll Be Seeing You"
PERFORMER "Rod Stewart"
ISRC USJAY0200290
INDEX 01 00:00:00


This post has been edited by db1989: May 29 2012, 20:46
Reason for edit: 1: snipped pointless quote from guide / 2: Please enclose large items within [codebox] tags.
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Ouroboros
post May 29 2012, 20:47
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1. You don't choose the bit rate with FLAC. It is lossless, it uses as many bits as it needs. You can change the compression ratio (more compression at the expense of some encoding speed).

3. The log file tells you if it's OK. Configure Accurate Rip to give you some independent validation.
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db1989
post May 29 2012, 20:52
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QUOTE (jaz012 @ May 29 2012, 20:33) *
1. There is a default bitrate in “Compression Options” of 768 kBit/s and it says something about how you can ignore this option and customize it later. But I saw no indication of a place to adjust this setting when I did my extraction. So I'm not sure how to proceed with regards to the bitrate and what bitrate level to choose.
Lossless files do not offer the user an ability to choose a fixed bitrate. This has been discussed numerous times, but see this recent thread: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=94926
The purpose of that selector in EAC is simply to provide a very rough visual estimate of the resulting FLAC file size, based upon that bit rate.

QUOTE (Ouroboros @ May 29 2012, 20:47) *
You can change the compression ratio (more compression at the expense of some encoding speed).
Indeed, but the OP should note that this option is not configured using the bitrate selector but rather must be specified in the command-line options. Which I assume s/he has read about in the Knowledgebase’s guide to EAC and FLAC and/or elsewhere. wink.gif

QUOTE
2. I used "Test and Copy Selected Tracks - Compressed" in Secure mode and it took 18 minutes for the CD to finish. When I selected "Drive is capable of retrieving C2 error information" in the Drive Options it cut down the time to 10 minutes.[…] Therefore I assume that this is the best way to do this for me (the Accurate Rip checkbox was checked but greyed out). Is it the best way? If not what is and why?
Using both Secure Mode and Test and Copy seems redundant; secure mode already does its own re-reading, so why make it do the entire thing twice?
Edit: See the response below from greynol, who knows a lot more about this than me (or most!)

QUOTE
3. To know that everything went well, I just need to look for the perfect finish and all are "OK" in the CRC catgory, right? I won't be missing anything that I will later regret when it comes to errors etc.?
Well, there’s the possibility that your drive may read the same wrong data twice and thus obtain matching CRCs… Again, this has been discussed a lot. I wonder why you were not able to activate AccurateRip? Comparing one’s rips to those of others is a more reliable indicator of accuracy than is reading twice by oneself, even using a secure mode. (Which Ouroboros beat me to saying, again! wink.gif)
Buuuuut… assuming your discs are in acceptable condition and your drive is competent, Secure Mode is a fairly reliable second-best. For now, at least.

QUOTE
4. Gaps: Here is my cue sheet (also there are no gaps mentioned in the gap column of EAC except for the first track). The Index numbers seem strange to me.
Why?

QUOTE
Are they good?
They simply state that each song begins at the very start of its corresponding audio file, which seems exactly right to me.

This post has been edited by db1989: May 29 2012, 21:09
Reason for edit: several additions
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greynol
post May 29 2012, 21:00
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QUOTE (db1989 @ May 29 2012, 12:52) *
Using both Secure Mode and Test and Copy seems redundant; secure mode already does its own re-reading, so why make it do the entire thing twice?

It's redundant only when EAC is told not to rely on C2 error information. When relying on C2 pointers, the additional test CRC (when matching) provides some confidence that the drive didn't fail to report an error.

Of course positive AccurateRip verification provides greater certainty that a rip is error-free than matching test and copy CRCs.

This post has been edited by greynol: May 29 2012, 21:05


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jaz012
post May 29 2012, 21:41
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Thank you everyone for your speedy responses. I think perhaps I'm a little overwhelmed by the volume of information that I have attempted to ingest so I hope that helps explain my questions.

One thing it seems that I missed is the comparing with Accurate Rip to see if my version matches others. Is there some documentation that explains how to do this? The configuration documentation is pretty clear and comprehensive but the information about doing the extraction is a little harder to find.

@ Ouroboros:

I believe I read somewhere that "6" is the default compression ratio and is the best choice.

@ db1989:

So I guess I do not need to worry about bitrates then. I had read that page and did copy/paste this command line into the Compression Options as per the configuration instructions:

-T "artist=%artist%" -T "title=%title%" -T "album=%albumtitle%" -T "date=%year%" -T "tracknumber=%tracknr%" -T "genre=%genre%" -5 %source%

@ db1989 and greynol:

I'm pretty confused about what "actions" and settings to use in what combination. I'm guessing that Accurate Rip compares my files with other files done by others. It would be great to do that but also to be able to do an extraction without that as some of the CDs are a bit obscure.


On a side note, the disk I tested this with (Rod Stewart) was brand new just out of the packaging. I just tried again (Trainspotting soundtrack CD) with "Test and Copy Selected Tracks - Compressed" and the C2 box unchecked and it took 48 minutes which is pretty long. It is a fairly well played CD unlike my first test CD.
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db1989
post May 29 2012, 21:51
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QUOTE (jaz012 @ May 29 2012, 21:41) *
Thank you everyone for your speedy responses. I think perhaps I'm a little overwhelmed by the volume of information that I have attempted to ingest so I hope that helps explain my questions.
I’m glad that you’ve found our replies helpful! You’re correct that it can be overwhelming, but I think you’re getting there quickly. smile.gif

QUOTE
One thing it seems that I missed is the comparing with Accurate Rip to see if my version matches others. Is there some documentation that explains how to do this? The configuration documentation is pretty clear and comprehensive but the information about doing the extraction is a little harder to find.
Is the official plugin installed and enabled? The official EAC site’s page about AccurateRip may help you here.

QUOTE
I believe I read somewhere that "6" is the default compression ratio and is the best choice.
[…]
-T "artist=%artist%" -T "title=%title%" -T "album=%albumtitle%" -T "date=%year%" -T "tracknumber=%tracknr%" -T "genre=%genre%" -5 %source%
QUOTE
-5
Does not compute wink.gif

QUOTE
On a side note, the disk I tested this with (Rod Stewart) was brand new just out of the packaging. I just tried again (Trainspotting soundtrack CD) with "Test and Copy Selected Tracks - Compressed" and the C2 box unchecked and it took 48 minutes which is pretty long. It is a fairly well played CD unlike my first test CD.
This definitely doesn’t sound right, I must say. What drive do you have? Do you know whether the entire process is slow, or just the gap detection? Short of some major issue with your drive, I suspect you may be using a gap detection method that does not suit it. Here’s a page that discusses some of the potential pitfalls: http://blowfish.be/eac/Setup/setup5.html#no5d
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greynol
post May 29 2012, 21:51
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Copy tracks compressed (Shift + F5)
Check AccurateRip results
If AR says they're good then you're done
For tracks AR cannot verify them as accurate, select them and generate a test CRC (F8)
If CRCs match you're done.

The above procedure is valid for all configurations. If you're using secure mode without C2 error information then generating a test CRC is unlikely to buy you anything.

If you're using C2 error information and test and copy CRCs don't match, try again without C2 error information.

You never told us what drive you're using and if it caches audio data.

Regarding Accurate Rip, the box should either be greyed-out and not checked or it should be configurable. If it is greyed-out and not checked then feed the drive discs and Accurate Rip will self-configure. If it is greyed-out and checked then there is something wrong.


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greynol
post May 29 2012, 22:02
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Re. Blowfish: UGH!!!

The author has remained pretty anonymous, but I know he reads my posts. After fixing awkwardly addressing several of the problems I've pointed over the past year or so, that site has gotten rather cumbersome (and I still have my doubts about its content!). Instead of keeping it clear and concise, it seems like he's chosen to layer what appears to be contradictory information.

I suggest we stick with the wiki approach. Any errors and/or shortcomings can be addressed more easily without having to rely on the knowledge of just one individual.

This post has been edited by greynol: May 29 2012, 22:16


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db1989
post May 29 2012, 22:12
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I know you and others have questioned the guide, and I was somewhat apprehensive about referencing it, but it seemed a good example of several pieces of information and warnings about gap detection being collected in one place… which is great for the lazy linker! blush.gif

Of course you’re correct that a community-based solution is best… so, perhaps we should promote our own section on gap detection from its long-standing status of “TBD”! wink.gif It remains there with most of the others. I’d be happy to help if I had more up-to-date experience of using EAC, but I rarely rip nowadays. (FWIW, I’ve just started using XLD when I occasionally do, so I hope to get into a position where I can at least offer help with that, if nothing else.)
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greynol
post May 29 2012, 22:19
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Some of the TBD is covered here:
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...Lossless_Backup

This post has been edited by greynol: May 29 2012, 22:19


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jaz012
post May 29 2012, 22:22
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I believe AR is set up as I could find "Send Accurate Rip Results" in the Database dropdown menu. I clicked on it and got this:

Compressing AccurateRip Results...Ok
Compressing Disc TOCs File...Ok
Compressing Index...Ok
Connecting to AccurateRip server...
Requesting version information...
Clearing socket
Submitting results...
AccurateRip submission sucessful!

Finished Submission.

I hope that is it. Here is a log from my latest rip (the 48 minute one). It lists my drive and gives the "Additional command line options" that "did not compute". wink.gif

"If you are using EAC 1.0b2 or newer, then in the Additional command line options box, copy and paste the following string:
-T "artist=%artist%" -T "title=%title%" -T "album=%albumtitle%" -T "date=%year%" -T "tracknumber=%tracknr%" -T "genre=%genre%" -5 %source%"

from here: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=EAC_and_FLAC

CODE
Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 3 from 29. August 2011

EAC extraction logfile from 29. May 2012, 22:31

Various / Trainspotting

Used drive : SlimtypeDVD A DS8A5SH Adapter: 0 ID: 1

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : No
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling : Appended to previous track

Used output format : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate : 768 kBit/s
Quality : High
Add ID3 tag : No
Command line compressor : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -T "artist=%artist%" -T "title=%title%" -T
"album=%albumtitle%" -T "date=%year%" -T "tracknumber=%tracknr%" -T "genre=%genre%" -5
%source%


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.33 | 5:13.20 | 33 | 23527
2 | 5:13.53 | 3:56.37 | 23528 | 41264
3 | 9:10.15 | 10:34.58 | 41265 | 88872
4 | 19:44.73 | 5:09.32 | 88873 | 112079
5 | 24:54.30 | 7:00.15 | 112080 | 143594
6 | 31:54.45 | 4:13.50 | 143595 | 162619
7 | 36:08.20 | 6:00.73 | 162620 | 189692
8 | 42:09.18 | 3:44.57 | 189693 | 206549
9 | 45:54.00 | 4:31.55 | 206550 | 226929
10 | 50:25.55 | 6:27.68 | 226930 | 256022
11 | 56:53.48 | 2:33.40 | 256023 | 267537
12 | 59:27.13 | 3:15.60 | 267538 | 282222
13 | 62:42.73 | 9:44.45 | 282223 | 326067
14 | 72:27.43 | 3:09.00 | 326068 | 340242


Track 1

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\01 Iggy Pop - Lust For Life.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.33

Peak level 87.2 %
Extraction speed 2.1 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2FD6F989
Copy CRC 2FD6F989
Accurately ripped (confidence 21) [29A8D84D] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 2

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\02 Brian Eno - Deep Blue Day.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.28

Peak level 81.5 %
Extraction speed 2.3 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 23D9CBD3
Copy CRC 23D9CBD3
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [F48209FB] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 3

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\03 Primal Scream - Trainspotting.wav

Peak level 90.9 %
Extraction speed 2.6 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 92F2EADB
Copy CRC 92F2EADB
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [06EE9F29] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 4

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\04 Sleeper - Atomic.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.53

Peak level 92.5 %
Extraction speed 2.9 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 6EF9F273
Copy CRC 6EF9F273
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [13B12EE3] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 5

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\05 New Order - Temptation.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:00.62

Peak level 88.3 %
Extraction speed 3.1 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 61F0961C
Copy CRC 61F0961C
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [14F6AB18] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 6

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\06 Iggy Pop - Nightclubbing.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:00.70

Peak level 90.0 %
Extraction speed 3.3 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 3D598BEA
Copy CRC 3D598BEA
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [CCB07A0F] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 7

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\07 Blur - Sing.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.15

Peak level 92.5 %
Extraction speed 3.5 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 8189155D
Copy CRC 8189155D
Accurately ripped (confidence 21) [750C7DFC] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 8

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\08 Lou Reed - Perfect Day.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:00.53

Peak level 92.5 %
Extraction speed 3.5 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC C514730C
Copy CRC C514730C
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [3377659A] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 9

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\09 Pulp - Mile End.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:00.55

Peak level 92.4 %
Extraction speed 3.6 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 284A9A3B
Copy CRC 284A9A3B
Accurately ripped (confidence 22) [5135A8CD] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 10

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\10 Bedrock feat. KYO - For What You
Dream Of.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.25

Peak level 98.0 %
Extraction speed 3.9 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 5367541F
Copy CRC 5367541F
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [2052828A] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 11

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\11 Elastica - 2-1.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.13

Peak level 83.2 %
Extraction speed 4.0 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1915CDBB
Copy CRC 1915CDBB
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [9FE81541] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 12

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\12 Leftfield - A Final Hit.wav

Peak level 69.6 %
Extraction speed 4.0 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 62AA19BC
Copy CRC 62AA19BC
Accurately ripped (confidence 22) [912C3066] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 13

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\13 Underworld - Born Slippy.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:00.40

Peak level 77.6 %
Extraction speed 4.1 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC FD4824A4
Copy CRC FD4824A4
Accurately ripped (confidence 22) [F64391A2] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 14

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\3\14 Damon Albarn - Closet Romantic.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.13

Peak level 94.4 %
Extraction speed 4.3 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC DDC7B096
Copy CRC DDC7B096
Accurately ripped (confidence 22) [8B0B3F5B] (AR v2)
Copy OK


All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report

@ db1989: I'm not sure if the gap detection is working well. I did do "detect gaps" in "actions" before the copying and it did fill in the "Gap" column.

@ greynol: I think the configuration wizard detected that my drive did not cache audio data but that was a few days ago so I'm not sure if I remember that correctly. The AccurateRip box is configurable unless I select the C2 option then it becomes greyed out (but it does stay checked).


P.S. apologies for the missing codebox but my attempt seems to not have worked. Also, it seems the log file lists the same info twice. Is that normal?

This post has been edited by greynol: May 29 2012, 22:48
Reason for edit: fixing codebox, removing redundant log and inserting a hard line breaks to fix horizontal scrolling problem
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db1989
post May 29 2012, 22:36
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QUOTE (jaz012 @ May 29 2012, 22:22) *
@ db1989: I'm not sure if the gap detection is working well. I did do "detect gaps" in "actions" before the copying and it did fill in the "Gap" column.
How long does the detection process take? That’s what I meant: if it takes ages, you should try another option and see if that speeds things up (hopefully dramatically). Otherwise, we still need to get some idea of which part of the extraction is taking such an inordinate amount of time.

QUOTE
P.S. apologies for the missing codebox but my attempt seems to not have worked. Also, it seems the log file lists the same info twice. Is that normal?
Instead of what you did, do this:
CODE
[codebox]tonne o’ text[/codebox]
And I don’t know why you have two reports in the one log (assuming you didn’t paste twice, but I think you’d know if you did tongue.gif).
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greynol
post May 29 2012, 22:55
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Other than to show pregap information in the log file, there is no reason to detect gaps before ripping. If you aren't interested in maintaining gap information in a CUE sheet in order to burn a copy at a later date with this information intact, there is no reason to detect gaps at all.

No AR support when C2 error information is enabled? Is this new behavior? It sounds like a bug to me! Can anyone else confirm?

EDIT: I just installed the latest version of EAC and cannot confirm that enabling the use of C2 pointers disables AR.

Regarding the redundant log (which I removed from your last post), you do not need to tell EAC to generate a log if you have it configured to do so automatically.

This post has been edited by greynol: May 29 2012, 23:10


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db1989
post May 29 2012, 23:20
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QUOTE (greynol @ May 29 2012, 22:55) *
If you aren't interested in maintaining gap information in a CUE sheet in order to burn a copy at a later date with this information intact, there is no reason to detect gaps at all.

Aren’t gaps detected during the process of ripping to an image and cue-sheet in all cases? I ask because, IIRC, we often advise users not to run the manual check before ripping to an image, as it’s a redundant step. As for the cosmetic feature of including gaps in the log, I assumed for the same reason that image-based rips would already have this, but this may not be the case (knowing me rolleyes.gif).

As I understood it, the only purposes of manual detection are (1) as a necessary prelude to non-standard positioning of INDEX 00s in per-track rips and (2) to include details about gaps in the log of rips with gaps in the standard location, i.e. appended to the previous track.
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greynol
post May 29 2012, 23:51
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QUOTE (db1989 @ May 29 2012, 15:20) *
Aren’t gaps detected during the process of ripping to an image and cue-sheet in all cases?
Yes, EAC will automatically detect gaps whenever it is instructed to create a cue sheet; either separately or as part of the image+cue ripping process. That I implied cue sheets could be created by EAC in such a way as not to include gap information (assuming the original disc has 00 indices) or one needs to detect gaps manually in order to create a cue sheet was an unfortunate mistake as neither of these are true.

QUOTE (db1989 @ May 29 2012, 15:20) *
I ask because, IIRC, we often advise users not to run the manual check before ripping to an image, as it’s a redundant step. As for the cosmetic feature of including gaps in the log, I assumed for the same reason that image-based rips would already have this, but this may not be the case (knowing me rolleyes.gif).
I'm pretty sure single-file image rips do not include pregap information in the log, regardless of whether gap detection is performed manually or automatically. I don't rip single-file images, however.

QUOTE (db1989 @ May 29 2012, 15:20) *
As I understood it, the only purposes of manual detection are (1) as a necessary prelude to non-standard positioning of INDEX 00s in per-track rips and (2) to include details about gaps in the log of rips with gaps in the standard location, i.e. appended to the previous track.
As well as (3) to display the gap sizes in the GUI, (4) to extract tracks, index-based and (5) to "Test Gaps On Silence" (which is misleading and hence completely useless to those who want to preserve data in order to maintain a lossless copy) you are absolutely correct.

Let me amend what you quoted to say cue sheets are not necessary unless one wants to burn a copy that maintains gap information with the notable exception that a CUE sheet is the only place EAC keeps a record of whether the original disc has the pre-emphasis flag enabled. No use for a cue sheet means no reason to do anything with gaps, though my preferred way to extract HTOA requires gap detection, falling under my (4).

This post has been edited by greynol: May 30 2012, 00:39


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jaz012
post May 30 2012, 20:41
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@ db1989: It seems that each song takes about 3-5 minutes to complete and there are 14 of them. About 1/2 the time is the "test" and the other 1/2 is the "copy". Nothing seems to take longer than anything else, it seems to run at a uniformly slow rate. And I don't see any mention of gap detection during the process (however, there is some interesting info regarding gaps in the first link below. I don't think I chose these settings). This is a fairly well used disc that is a few years old but at the same time in fairly good condition (no scratches).

As for the two reports, it wasn't a double paste cool.gif . It may have put two in there because it autogenerated a log and I pressed "Create Log" when the extraction was finished.

@ greynol: It seems that making the cue sheets is quick and painless and I would want to be thorough so I am interested in doing that too. Who knows if one day I will be transferring it back to disk.

As for the AR and C2, hopefully this will help:





And here is a screenshot of the "Copy Selected Tracks - Compressed" in action. It was faster than Test and Copy:



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greynol
post May 31 2012, 05:36
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AccurateRip (AR) and accurate stream are two completely different things. The AccurateRip checkbox is located on the offset/speed tab.

I already knew you didn't paste the log twice. smile.gif

What kind of speeds do you get with the C2 error information setting enabled? What do you get with burst mode?


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jaz012
post May 31 2012, 20:17
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Oops. Now I know why I was being so confusing with Accurate Rip. blink.gif

So far I have done:

Standard Test and Copy: 48 minutes
Standard Copy: 25 minutes
Test and Copy with C2 Error Information: 16 minutes (with one error - see log)
Test and Copy with Burst Mode: 15 minutes


So if I understand all this correctly, then these three magic lines need to look like this in order for me to have the perfect rip:

All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report


Also, as I do want to make cue sheets and get this gap thing right, should I change the setting (in the screenshot in my previous post)?

Lastly, is it this line for each track that tells you that Accurate Rip made an accurate match: "Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [06EE9F29] (AR v2)"
If that is the case, what if you are not online?


CODE


Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 3 from 29. August 2011

EAC extraction logfile from 31. May 2012, 20:51

Various / Trainspotting

Used drive : SlimtypeDVD A DS8A5SH Adapter: 0 ID: 1

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : No
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate : 768 kBit/s
Quality : High
Add ID3 tag : No
Command line compressor : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -T "artist=%artist%" -T "title=%title%" -T "album=%albumtitle%"
-T "date=%year%" -T "tracknumber=%tracknr%" -T "genre=%genre%" -5 %source%


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.33 | 5:13.20 | 33 | 23527
2 | 5:13.53 | 3:56.37 | 23528 | 41264
3 | 9:10.15 | 10:34.58 | 41265 | 88872
4 | 19:44.73 | 5:09.32 | 88873 | 112079
5 | 24:54.30 | 7:00.15 | 112080 | 143594
6 | 31:54.45 | 4:13.50 | 143595 | 162619
7 | 36:08.20 | 6:00.73 | 162620 | 189692
8 | 42:09.18 | 3:44.57 | 189693 | 206549
9 | 45:54.00 | 4:31.55 | 206550 | 226929
10 | 50:25.55 | 6:27.68 | 226930 | 256022
11 | 56:53.48 | 2:33.40 | 256023 | 267537
12 | 59:27.13 | 3:15.60 | 267538 | 282222
13 | 62:42.73 | 9:44.45 | 282223 | 326067
14 | 72:27.43 | 3:09.00 | 326068 | 340242


Track 1

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\01 Iggy Pop - Lust For Life.wav

Peak level 87.2 %
Extraction speed 6.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2FD6F989
Copy CRC 2FD6F989
Accurately ripped (confidence 21) [29A8D84D] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 2

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\02 Brian Eno - Deep Blue Day.wav

Peak level 81.5 %
Extraction speed 7.1 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 23D9CBD3
Copy CRC 23D9CBD3
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [F48209FB] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 3

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\03 Primal Scream - Trainspotting.wav

Peak level 90.9 %
Extraction speed 8.1 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 92F2EADB
Copy CRC 92F2EADB
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [06EE9F29] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 4

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\04 Sleeper - Atomic.wav

Peak level 92.5 %
Extraction speed 8.7 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 6EF9F273
Copy CRC 6EF9F273
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [13B12EE3] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 5

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\05 New Order - Temptation.wav

Peak level 88.3 %
Extraction speed 9.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 61F0961C
Copy CRC 61F0961C
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [14F6AB18] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 6

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\06 Iggy Pop - Nightclubbing.wav

Peak level 90.0 %
Extraction speed 9.8 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 3D598BEA
Copy CRC 3D598BEA
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [CCB07A0F] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 7

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\07 Blur - Sing.wav

Peak level 92.5 %
Extraction speed 10.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 8189155D
Copy CRC 8189155D
Accurately ripped (confidence 21) [750C7DFC] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 8

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\08 Lou Reed - Perfect Day.wav

Peak level 92.5 %
Extraction speed 11.0 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 935B43C3
Copy CRC 935B43C3
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 177) [2453E715],
AccurateRip returned [4788DB96] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 9

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\09 Pulp - Mile End.wav

Peak level 92.4 %
Extraction speed 11.1 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 284A9A3B
Copy CRC 284A9A3B
Accurately ripped (confidence 22) [5135A8CD] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 10

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\10 Bedrock feat. KYO - For What You Dream Of.wav

Peak level 98.0 %
Extraction speed 11.9 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 5367541F
Copy CRC 5367541F
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [2052828A] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 11

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\11 Elastica - 2-1.wav

Peak level 83.2 %
Extraction speed 11.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1915CDBB
Copy CRC 1915CDBB
Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [9FE81541] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 12

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\12 Leftfield - A Final Hit.wav

Peak level 69.6 %
Extraction speed 12.2 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 62AA19BC
Copy CRC 62AA19BC
Accurately ripped (confidence 22) [912C3066] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 13

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\13 Underworld - Born Slippy.wav

Peak level 77.6 %
Extraction speed 13.1 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC FD4824A4
Copy CRC FD4824A4
Accurately ripped (confidence 22) [F64391A2] (AR v2)
Copy OK

Track 14

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\14 Damon Albarn - Closet Romantic.wav

Peak level 94.4 %
Extraction speed 12.5 X
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC DDC7B096
Copy CRC DDC7B096
Accurately ripped (confidence 22) [8B0B3F5B] (AR v2)
Copy OK


13 track(s) accurately ripped
1 track(s) could not be verified as accurate

Some tracks could not be verified as accurate

No errors occurred

End of status report



This post has been edited by greynol: May 31 2012, 22:10
Reason for edit: Added line breaks in log to prevent codebox scrolling problem
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pdq
post May 31 2012, 20:40
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In case it has not been mentioned, you do not need test and copy if your results match the AccurateRip database. Only if you do not get a match do you need to use a more secure ripping method.
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greynol
post May 31 2012, 20:58
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Test and copy will always take twice as along as a copy since the test pass is the identical operation as the copy pass except that the extracted audio is not written to your hard drive. This is ignoring additional time when encoding to a compressed format, of course. wink.gif

A rip using C2 pointers and no cache flushing should take about the same time as a burst rip, so that's good too. That said I'd expect to see at least double the ripping speed, but performance with EAC depends on the drive and the disc and can vary wildly.

QUOTE (jaz012 @ May 31 2012, 12:17) *
then these three magic lines need to look like this in order for me to have the perfect rip:

All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

"All tracks accurately ripped" is the single most compelling line. The following line is irrelevant in this situation. FWIW the "No error occurred" is solely based on EAC's internal criterion for what constitutes a good rip and is completely independent from the previous line (or lines) that are derived from AccurateRip results. Further, EAC's internal criterion is independent and separate from AccurateRip results. EAC does not do anything with AccurateRip results but report them. As a result, it is quite possible to see:
QUOTE
All tracks accurately ripped

There were errors
...in which case "There were errors" can be ignored.

You may also see EAC say there were no errors but also see that some tracks cannot be verified by AccurateRip, which is an inconclusive case. Depending on other factors such as whether unverified tracks caused EAC to perform re-reads, the confidence level of all the tracks that were verified, or the condition of the disc you might have reason to believe AR over EAC or vice-versa when they contradict one another. Your latest log which I'll address shortly falls under this category.

QUOTE (jaz012 @ May 31 2012, 12:17) *
Also, as I do want to make cue sheets and get this gap thing right, should I change the setting (in the screenshot in my previous post)?

The wiki should be clear on this (or changed if not). There is no single right way to configure the gap detection settings. If there was then they wouldn't be there in the first place. What is best for your drive (and to a much lesser extent, the disc) depends on what works the fastest and gives results that make sense.

QUOTE (jaz012 @ May 31 2012, 12:17) *
Lastly, is it this line for each track that tells you that Accurate Rip made an accurate match: "Accurately ripped (confidence 23) [06EE9F29] (AR v2)"
If that is the case, what if you are not online?

You'll know when you encounter it. wink.gif

CODE
Track 8

Filename C:\Users\Other\Desktop\eac test - 111\5\08 Lou Reed - Perfect Day.wav

Peak level 92.5 %
Extraction speed 11.0 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 935B43C3
Copy CRC 935B43C3
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 177) [2453E715],
AccurateRip returned [4788DB96] (AR v2)
Copy OK

[...]

13 track(s) accurately ripped
1 track(s) could not be verified as accurate

Some tracks could not be verified as accurate

No errors occurred

I would try this track again with in burst mode or in secure mode with the C2 option disabled and see if you get a different result. Because the other tracks were verified with a good level of confidence (~22), I'm inclined to believe AR and not EAC.

This post has been edited by greynol: May 31 2012, 22:24


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JJZolx
post May 31 2012, 23:25
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QUOTE (greynol @ May 31 2012, 13:58) *
I would try this track again with in burst mode or in secure mode with the C2 option disabled and see if you get a different result. Because the other tracks were verified with a good level of confidence (~22), I'm inclined to believe AR and not EAC.


What's the explanation for this? The logging for the other tracks would lead me to believe that about 23 people have submitted this pressing of the same CD to the AR database. But that _one_ track in the middle of the CD has 177 entries in the AR database, and happens to be the only mismatch? How does that happen?
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pdq
post May 31 2012, 23:39
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QUOTE (JJZolx @ May 31 2012, 18:25) *
How does that happen?

Very simple - that track is not accurate.
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Ouroboros
post May 31 2012, 23:52
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177 entries vs 23 presumably because 23 people have ripped and submitted results for the whole album, while 154 people have ripped and submitted results for only that one track from the album?

This post has been edited by Ouroboros: May 31 2012, 23:57
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greynol
post May 31 2012, 23:56
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QUOTE (Ouroboros @ May 31 2012, 15:52) *
154 people have ripped and submitted results for only that one track.

That's not right.

177 is the number from the first pressing element for that track in the record, which is what AR provides when it cannot match the hash.

EDIT: The word "pressing" was stricken and replaced with "element for that track" since individual hashes and their associated confidences only implies different pressings, it does not guarantee they are all from different pressings. Subtle difference? Perhaps, but it helps to paint a more accurate picture of how the AR system works, even if it means having to understand that things aren't always all that simple.

This post has been edited by greynol: Jun 1 2012, 00:04


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JJZolx
post Jun 1 2012, 00:07
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QUOTE (greynol @ May 31 2012, 16:56) *
177 is the number from the first "pressing" in the record, which is what AR provides when it cannot match the hash.


So you fail to get an AR match and what is returned is a confidence number (and CRC?) from a different pressing?? Can't it easily figure out the pressing by the other 12 of 13 tracks on the CD? If the confidence number shown were 21/22/23 then it would be readily apparent (to me, anyway) that AR found the right track in its database, without my having to understand the quirks of the whole process in detail.
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