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Pro-Ject Debut III USB Preamp Advice
Engelsstaub
post May 10 2012, 16:13
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I have the turntable mentioned in the title. I suppose it's no big news that the USB-out is sometimes too loud (no gain adjustment) with some vinyl (which results in clipping,) especially nearly every double-LP I own. Much to my dismay it also happens with a few regular ones like my mint original-pressing Black Sabbath "Mob Rules." For about 70% of my LPs it's fine, though "limited" to 16-bit resolution for recording.

My questions are these:

Would it be feasible to use something like the M-Audio Firewire Solo Amazon to record my needledrops from the preamp's RCA-outs to my Macintosh? (I'm using VinylStudio and it's pretty great IME.) If so, would I be able to effectively do so at 24-bit? (I don't imagine I hear any difference, but would like to do so for editing purposes.)

Any recommendations/good advice is greatly appreciated. (I wish I had researched this TT before I bought it. I'm considering trading it in later and getting a regular Debut III or something else in their line-up for under 800 USD...that's just not going to happen anytime really soon. I'm otherwise pleased with this TT's performance, so I wouldn't mind coming up with a good workaround. I get great results with many records and the hardware/software combingation.)

Pretty new to digitizing vinyl, so please forgive my ignorance.


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The Loudness War is over. Now it's a hopeless occupation.
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AndyH-ha
post May 11 2012, 01:54
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Clipping via the USB connection is caused by the analogue signal being too hot. The analogue circuitry produces too high a signal level and overloads the ADC input, ahead of the USB interface. The signal will be just as high if fed to any other ADC input, such as those in a Tascam or M-Audio interface unless there is some built-in extra line-level amplification between the phono preamp and the ADC that isn't in the circuit going to the TT's RCA outputs. This is not very likely.

The analogue input to the ADC depends upon the phono cartridge output and the phone preamp amplification. In most purely analogue system clipping is not likely because the phono preamp output is fed to an analogue input with a volume control -- an input level adjuster.

Very few line level input of an ADC have any kind of input level control. The expectation is that the level will be adjusted before it reaches there.

Line level is not closely defined. What is too high a signal level for one ADC, causing clipping, might be easily handled by another, thus no clipping.

There are thus four places changes can be made:
a different phono cartridge
a different phono preamp
a different ADC
a level adjustment, i.e. a line level preamp or a mixer, between the phono preamp and the ADC.
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Engelsstaub
post May 11 2012, 03:09
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QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ May 10 2012, 19:54) *
...a level adjustment, i.e. a line level preamp or a mixer, between the phono preamp and the ADC.


So basically (if I'm understanding correctly) the signal is being clipped before it ever reaches the RCA-outs on my TT? If this is so, then I guess the best solution is to wait until I can sell this and get a regular Debut III (sans the preamp) and a proper preamp that can be adjusted. That's a real bummer.

I don't feel like experimenting with cartridges or ripping apart the preamp. Neither sounds like a very easy solution or task I'd want to undertake. The latter would ruin any resale value for sure!

Now I really wish I had done my homework before I bought it.

EDIT: grammar.

This post has been edited by Engelsstaub: May 11 2012, 03:11


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Posts in this topic
- Engelsstaub   Pro-Ject Debut III USB Preamp Advice   May 10 2012, 16:13
- - Apesbrain   Absolutely, so long as you run the TT line level o...   May 10 2012, 20:30
- - mixminus1   @Apesbrain: The OP's turntable has a preamp bu...   May 10 2012, 20:35
- - Engelsstaub   Thanks for the replies. Apesbrain: yeah, this part...   May 10 2012, 22:46
- - AndyH-ha   Clipping via the USB connection is caused by the a...   May 11 2012, 01:54
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ May 10 2012, 19:54...   May 11 2012, 03:09
- - mixminus1   No, Andy's saying that the outputs of the inte...   May 11 2012, 03:42
- - AndyH-ha   "it would have to be a VERY hot phono pre...   May 11 2012, 04:55
- - Engelsstaub   mixminus1: my Mac is a late 2010 13" MacBook ...   May 11 2012, 16:45
- - AndyH-ha   I can be of only limited help here but you should ...   May 11 2012, 20:53
- - AndyH-ha   The possibility also exist that you might not have...   May 11 2012, 20:59
- - Apesbrain   @OP, I now understand and I'm sorry for the mi...   May 11 2012, 21:06
- - Engelsstaub   Well, I do have a RCA-to1/8" cable that I use...   May 12 2012, 02:28
- - AndyH-ha   "I adjusted the volume to max out at around 9...   May 12 2012, 03:18
- - Engelsstaub   Nah, I had it turned all the way up on the Mac...   May 12 2012, 04:09
- - AndyH-ha   It seems rather strange that a recording applicati...   May 12 2012, 06:55
- - punkrockdude   What cartridge is it on the turntable? Just asking...   May 12 2012, 14:39
- - Engelsstaub   punkrockdude: it's the stock Ortofon OM5e that...   May 12 2012, 14:57
- - AndyH-ha   QUOTE I'm gathering from everything you've...   May 12 2012, 20:52
- - Engelsstaub   Alright. Thanks for your reply and your patience, ...   May 12 2012, 21:39
- - AndyH-ha   Have you determined that you get clipping using yo...   May 12 2012, 23:16
- - Engelsstaub   Yes, this and a few other records seem to clip in ...   May 13 2012, 00:18
- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ May 10 2012, 11:13) ...   May 14 2012, 12:59
|- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ May 14 2012, 06...   May 14 2012, 15:18
- - dhromed   QUOTE Audacity has a clipping indicator. I'm w...   May 14 2012, 15:33
- - Engelsstaub   Oh, ok, Thanks, dhromed. I think I understand how...   May 14 2012, 16:27
- - AndyH-ha   If you were looking at music that had been mastere...   May 15 2012, 03:18
- - Engelsstaub   Hey, AndyH (or anybody else reading) ...as long as...   May 15 2012, 18:05
- - AndyH-ha   According to the manufacturer's literature, th...   May 15 2012, 21:36
- - Engelsstaub   Great. Thanks for your help, Andy (and also everyo...   May 16 2012, 01:19


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