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Best 5.1 surround format for Audio CD to play in Car, 5.1 Surround sound format (lossless) to play in Car cd player
hariharancam
post May 10 2012, 14:47
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Hi Everyone

I am glad that i have found this forum. I have always wanted to be part of the best audio related forum. Guess I have found it. This is my very first post here. It would be great to get help. I am going to drive 14 hours this saturday. If i could have my songs written as below it would make my journey very pleasant.

I want to burn 5.1 surround audio to a CD which can be played in my Honda CRV 2011 model. I dont care how many less songs count i could burn.

But I wanna know what kind of file format which can be played. .WAV 16 BIT or .FLAC etc or MP3 with 320 KBPS.

Reason is, All of a sudden one song from Kill Bill in my audio cd played in 5.1 track and it was wonderful to listen. Until then i never liked my cd player in my CRV. But i can't find that song and what format it was when i burnt it.

Can someone could assist? I have toast titanium and am on a mac. Have access to final cut pro & compressor as well. And I am not very positive on how many songs which i have is in 320kbps high quality format. If there is a easy way to find that out from my collection please advice me. That could save me lot of time.

Can't wait to hear from you all.

HARIHARAN
www.filmmaker.me
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zipr
post May 10 2012, 14:54
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A good place to start may be the manual for your car, to see which audio formats your head unit supports.
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mixminus1
post May 10 2012, 15:01
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I'd be amazed if any stock automotive head unit could play multichannel WAVs or FLACs, and MP3 can't do multichannel, so if your head unit really can play discrete surround tracks (as opposed to creating surround from a stereo track via matrix formats such as Dolby Pro Logic IIx), it would almost certainly be either DTS or Dolby Digital.

If you load that Kill Bill CD on your Mac, what files show up?


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hariharancam
post May 10 2012, 15:17
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QUOTE (mixminus1 @ May 10 2012, 16:01) *
I'd be amazed if any stock automotive head unit could play multichannel WAVs or FLACs, and MP3 can't do multichannel, so if your head unit really can play discrete surround tracks (as opposed to creating surround from a stereo track via matrix formats such as Dolby Pro Logic IIx), it would almost certainly be either DTS or Dolby Digital.

If you load that Kill Bill CD on your Mac, what files show up?


Yes. I was surprised when i hear multichannel audio. It was so pleasant and amazing to hear. It's all already burnt into my CD. So all the songs shows the same audio format which is .cda i guess. Based on this song, am sure my car player could play multichannel. I bet smile.gif

I wish someone could help...

Lets' assume it can play. How should i burn and what format it should be? Would i be able to convert my stereo songs to multichannel. It's okay to lose some audio quality.

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hariharancam
post May 10 2012, 15:41
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My car player specifications are below. It has 7 speakers.

Trim Level Power (watts) AM/FM/CD Audio System MP3/Auxiliary Input Jack XM Radio[1] USB Audio Interface[2] Bluetooth®[3] Pandora[4] MP3/WMA Capability Speakers

EX-L 328 Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard Standard 7
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probedb
post May 10 2012, 15:53
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You're not really understanding what people are saying. Standard audio CDs cannot contain 5.1 surround. They support 2 channel stereo.

By specs people mean what audio formats does it support? You mention WMA and MP3 so I'd assume those.
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hariharancam
post May 10 2012, 16:08
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I just called Honda and spoke to technical team. They said my car is capable of playing AAC, WMV, MP3. In the car spec for audio i also see WMA capable.

I understand car is capable of playing only stereo 2 channels. If that's the case, how come just one song could play vocal and music separately in all the speakers? So am sure there is a way.

Now, could someone tell me which of the above mentioned format is capable of holding lossless audio? I could do test and play it in my car to see how it works out.

Thanks for your replies...!
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eahm
post May 10 2012, 16:42
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of...chnical_details


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hariharancam
post May 10 2012, 16:51
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QUOTE (eahm @ May 10 2012, 17:42) *



Yup, I have already figured out AAC is the right format to go which contains more bit rate and multi channels. But how do i burn AAC to an audio cd? which software should i use? How to customize the bit rate, sample rate etc? And if i convert MP3 to AAC will it work just fine?

Please advice.
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probedb
post May 10 2012, 17:01
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Just wow....

Erm, use the search.............or find any audio CD creation program that will allow you to create an Audio CD from AAC/MP3. Also I assume your player supports AAC/MP3 from a data CD so there's no need to create an audio CD if this is the case, just create a data CD and put your files on it.

Why are you talking about converting MP3 to AAC?
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hariharancam
post May 10 2012, 17:06
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QUOTE (probedb @ May 10 2012, 18:01) *
Just wow....

Erm, use the search.............or find any audio CD creation program that will allow you to create an Audio CD from AAC/MP3. Also I assume your player supports AAC/MP3 from a data CD so there's no need to create an audio CD if this is the case, just create a data CD and put your files on it.

Why are you talking about converting MP3 to AAC?


Because I do not have AAC format songs in my collection. I do have only MP3. And If i burn a data cd i dont think that quality is equal to having a Audio cd.
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eahm
post May 10 2012, 17:13
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MP3 = no multichannel
CD = no multichannel
AAC = multichannel

*Transcoding lossy to lossy is always a bad choice.

MP3 to AAC = "same", no multichannel, the AAC will result same as the original MP3
MP3 to CD = "same", no multichannel, the CD will result same as the original MP3
AAC (let's suppose you found a multichannel AAC) to CD = downgrade, the CD is not multichannel

You best option is to find AAC multichannel files and load them via USB/SD/Data CD, no idea where you can find them though.

This post has been edited by eahm: May 10 2012, 17:16


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lvqcl
post May 10 2012, 17:26
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QUOTE
When a Dolby Stereo/Dolby Surround soundtrack is produced, five elements of audio information (left, center, right, sub and surround) are matrix-encoded two channels with stereo playback compatibility.

Probably that track was encoded with Dolby Surround?
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hariharancam
post May 10 2012, 17:31
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Thanks for the detailed response eahm. I agree with all your points.

And that's the point, I don't know where i can find AAC format songs. And as lvqcl says it could have been encoded with dolby sound. Unfortunately i lost that original song from my hard drive. Helpless to see what format it was and how it could use all the 7 speakers effectively where all the songs in the CD has been burnt in the same format.

Mystery!
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mzil
post May 10 2012, 19:39
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QUOTE (mixminus1 @ May 10 2012, 10:01) *
I'd be amazed if any stock automotive head unit could play multichannel

Agreed. His car has a two channel stereo system with a usb input, end of story . No multi channel sound in any sense, nor any Dolby/DTS form of real surround sound. Like many if not most cars there are probably rear speakers that play the same signal as the front.

If there was anything fancy besides 2 ch stereo it would be mentioned here:

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/p...Model=FB2F9CJNW


Note: "Six speakers" I believe means they count separate, front tweeters as "speakers" or perhaps here are two small "subs".


"The USB Audio Interface is used for direct connection to and control of some current digital audio players and other USB devices that contain MP3, WMA or AAC music files. Some USB devices with security software and digital rights-protected files may not work. Please see your Honda dealer for details"

This post has been edited by mzil: May 10 2012, 19:49
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andy o
post May 10 2012, 19:41
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I think first you should focus on solving the mystery of the Kill Bill CD track though.

QUOTE (mixminus1 @ May 10 2012, 07:01) *
I'd be amazed if any stock automotive head unit could play multichannel WAVs or FLACs, and MP3 can't do multichannel, so if your head unit really can play discrete surround tracks (as opposed to creating surround from a stereo track via matrix formats such as Dolby Pro Logic IIx), it would almost certainly be either DTS or Dolby Digital.
I agree with this, if your car's "CD player" is actually a DVD player, it's likely, but from what you said after, it probably isn't a DVD player.

QUOTE (probedb @ May 10 2012, 07:53) *
You're not really understanding what people are saying. Standard audio CDs cannot contain 5.1 surround. They support 2 channel stereo.
DTS CDs are AFAIK technically Redbook, just need a bit-perfect transmission to the decoder, from which I think most DVD players can play multichannel. But I think it's unlikely that that happened if as above, it's not a DVD player.

I don't think the unit is even multichannel, so I'm not even sure if what you (the OP) heard was actually multichannel. Do you have a center speaker? Maybe it was just a very pronounced stereo effect.

This post has been edited by andy o: May 10 2012, 19:42
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DVDdoug
post May 10 2012, 20:23
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QUOTE
Reason is, All of a sudden one song from Kill Bill in my audio cd played in 5.1 track and it was wonderful to listen. Until then i never liked my cd player in my CRV....

I just called Honda and spoke to technical team. They said my car is capable of playing AAC, WMV, MP3. In the car spec for audio i also see WMA capable...
They didn't say anything about 5.1? I think you were hearing some kind of illusion*... Too bad we don't know how it was achieved. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with your hearing or perception... Regular stereo is an illusion too... We hear the singer coming from the center when there is no center-speaker.

Does your car stereo have Dolby Pro Logic II? Pro Logic II receivers have various "soundfield" surround-effects that can take-advantage of surround-sound speakers from a regular 2-channel stereo source. For example, there is usually a "hall effect" that adds reverb & delay to the rear speakers. (If your stereo supports Pro Logic, there's probably a Dolby logo on the front panel... You probably don't need to check the owner's manual or customer support.)

With an audio editor, you could use similar techniques to convert 2-channels to 5.1, and then save-as 5.1 channel AAC. Of course, you still don't have true 5.1 with different sounds/instruments coming from different speakers. That will only work if your stereo supports 5.1. And, you don't have time to do that before Saturday. wink.gif

QUOTE
And that's the point, I don't know where i can find AAC format songs.
We don't know either... Probably 99% of music is released in 2-channel stereo.

The only standard digital 5.1 media you can readily find commercially are:
SACD (Not that common. Requires a special player)
DVD (video)
Audio-DVD (Rare. Requires a special player)
Blu-Ray

These use various underlying formats... None of them use AAC. You might be able to copy and convert them to multi-channel AAC, but all of these formats are copy-protected and we don't discuss the cracking of copy-protection on this forum.

It is possible to encode the old "analog" Dolby Surround (Pro Logic) on a regular audio CD (or a VHS tape), but it's hardly ever done with music, because it mostly works by "steering" the sound... It's OK with movie sound-effects, but with music you don't really want to steer ALL of the vocals and instruments to the rear, or the left... You want discrete-digital 5.1 with different sounds coming from different speakers at the same time.




* There is no good way to get a reliable surround-illusion from 2 speakers. But, you can get a sort-of "spacey" effect by inverting one channel. You can do that by reversing the wires on one speaker, or you can modify the file with an audio editor. That's just something you can play with if you want. It's not something you should do nomally, because it messes-up the normal stereo image (illusion) and with the woofers working in opposite directions the bass tends to get reduced/canceled.

This post has been edited by DVDdoug: May 10 2012, 20:44
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hariharancam
post May 10 2012, 21:15
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Thanks guys!

I am really overwhelmed with all your replies. It makes me feel happy.

I am not sure if there are center speakers. But honda crv has 7 speakers. and i dont' know how many are tweets, sub etc. But whenever i play songs it always sucks. No good base and everything is like even which i hate to listen. But this one particular song, i heard the vocal from the right or behind me (completely isolated) and the music in the front speakers close to my steering. I was blown away with that song and i hear that song many times.

I just brought the CD and exported it to MP3 using itunes in it's highest 320kbps settings. I played it on my mac, in Logitech Z623 speakers. It's 2.1 but produce stunning sound quality. I noticed the left speaker does not have any audio at all. But i still hear the same effect. So i kinda agree it could be illusion or just using one speaker produce that effect, god knows.

But i want to seperate atleast vocal and music so i will have pleasant hearing.

I tried converting my mp3 to aac, apple lossless, mp3 320kbps, and i dont' find any difference on my mac. i tried the same song. sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif
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andy o
post May 11 2012, 02:48
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With car manufacturers, the number of speakers is most, if not all, of the time marketing speak. As someone said above, they count tweeters and woofers as individual speakers. My guess is for your "7 speakers": 2 tweeters, 2 mid/woofers, 2 coaxials in the rear, and 1 subwoofer.

It's very unlikely that it's 5.1, because of what was said before, and also given the options for the 2012 CRV at Honda's site.

That you don't find a difference between those formats is normal, that's what they're designed for!
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