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Gapless playback with a Linux DLNA server, was: "software to create cue files"
Richard Kimber
post Apr 10 2012, 15:25
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Virtually all the music I buy now comes in the form of downloaded flac files. These have no cue sheets with them.

Some of the music needs to be played gaplessly, and I'm under the impression that flac files + cue sheets is a solution to this. If this is so, can anyone recommend a linux program that would enable me to generate cue sheets from the flac files on my hard disk? I have seen software that creates cue files from music on a CD, but I can't find anything that does it from a folder of flac files on the hard disk.
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greynol
post Apr 10 2012, 16:27
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Gapless playback is not a requirement of proper decoding regardless of the format. It has to do with how the player handles the audio stream during file changes as well as some system to tell the player what part of the decoded stream to ignore during playback if that's also a necessary requirement (as it is with mp3, but not with flac, for example).

When used with a media player and audio encoded as one track per file, cue sheets are nothing more than playlists. There is nothing inherent in them to promote gapless playback. Cue sheets were intended to provide a way to add additional information that isn't present in a data file or files in order to create a more complete copy onto optical media. In the case of redbook audio, the data is already inherently gapless, so with respect to this a cue sheet only provides indexing.

This post has been edited by greynol: Apr 10 2012, 17:36


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Richard Kimber
post Apr 10 2012, 18:00
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QUOTE (greynol @ Apr 10 2012, 16:27) *
Gapless playback is not a requirement of proper decoding regardless of the format. It has to do with how the player handles the audio stream during file changes as well as some system to tell the player what part of the decoded stream to ignore during playback if that's also a necessary requirement (as it is with mp3, but not with flac, for example).

Are you saying that it's largely a matter of buffering? Would increasing buffer sizes work (not that I'm sure how to do this, but I guess I could find out, if that's the solution)?
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benski
post Apr 10 2012, 18:15
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QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 10 2012, 13:00) *
QUOTE (greynol @ Apr 10 2012, 16:27) *
Gapless playback is not a requirement of proper decoding regardless of the format. It has to do with how the player handles the audio stream during file changes as well as some system to tell the player what part of the decoded stream to ignore during playback if that's also a necessary requirement (as it is with mp3, but not with flac, for example).

Are you saying that it's largely a matter of buffering? Would increasing buffer sizes work (not that I'm sure how to do this, but I guess I could find out, if that's the solution)?


There are a number of common issues that some media players have that effect track transitions. Hardware decoders are notoriously bad, but even common PC software doesn't always get it right.

The most common issues are:
1) filling out the last buffer with zeroes on the end of a track. Most audio output APIs require audio to be fed in fixed-size buffers, e.g. 1024 samples at a time. If the song is not an even multiple of the fixed buffer size, some players might fill up the remainder of the buffer with silence (zeroes) instead of appending the start of the next song. This will introduce an audible drop-out or click on song transition
2) letting the buffers exhaust before starting parsing/decoding of the next song. Audio output is often heavily buffered (e.g. 2 seconds) to deal with I/O congestion, CPU spikes from other running applications and thread pre-emption. In practical terms, this means that the song has been decoded 2 seconds ahead of what you are hearing out of the speakers. Many players will let the buffer 'play out' before switching to the next song. Since playback of the next song does not always happen immediately (the file must be opened [or network connection established], non-audio portions such as audio information, metadata and seek-tables be parsed and interpreted, etc). This will lead to an audible gap between songs.
3) On hardware devices, the decoding might be done via some onboard chip. Sometimes this prevents the software/firmware from having any access to the audio stream in order to add in needed logic to handle song transitions properly and to handle padding information embedded in formats such as MP3. Even if the chip would theoretically allow this, the device manufacturer might be using code developed by the chip manufacturer to do playback and might be unwilling or unable to make modification to that code.

This post has been edited by benski: Apr 10 2012, 18:20
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Posts in this topic
- Richard Kimber   Gapless playback with a Linux DLNA server   Apr 10 2012, 15:25
- - Porcus   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 10 2012, 16:2...   Apr 10 2012, 16:03
- - Dario   As far as I know, lossless formats are inherently ...   Apr 10 2012, 16:05
- - trout   FLAC, as most any lossless format, should playback...   Apr 10 2012, 16:12
- - greynol   Gapless playback is not a requirement of proper de...   Apr 10 2012, 16:27
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (greynol @ Apr 10 2012, 16:27) Gapl...   Apr 10 2012, 18:00
||- - benski   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 10 2012, 13:0...   Apr 10 2012, 18:15
|- - JimH   QUOTE (greynol @ Apr 10 2012, 10:27) Gapl...   Apr 11 2012, 15:23
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (JimH @ Apr 11 2012, 15:23) When yo...   Apr 11 2012, 16:19
- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (trout @ Apr 10 2012, 16:12) FLAC, ...   Apr 10 2012, 17:42
|- - trout   QUOTE (Richard Kimber) Some googling suggested tha...   Apr 10 2012, 18:05
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (trout @ Apr 10 2012, 18:05) Maybe,...   Apr 10 2012, 18:53
- - JimH   I did a search for "gapless DLNA" and fo...   Apr 11 2012, 15:30
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (JimH @ Apr 11 2012, 15:30) I did a...   Apr 11 2012, 16:13
- - Wombat   I have a network player myself and read some revie...   Apr 11 2012, 16:29
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (Wombat @ Apr 11 2012, 16:29) I hav...   Apr 11 2012, 16:47
|- - Nessuno   QUOTE (Wombat @ Apr 11 2012, 17:29) canīt...   Apr 11 2012, 19:08
- - Wombat   Ops, you responded while i was editing my last ans...   Apr 11 2012, 16:50
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (Wombat @ Apr 11 2012, 16:50) Ops, ...   Apr 11 2012, 16:57
|- - JimH   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 11 2012, 10:5...   Apr 11 2012, 17:14
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (JimH @ Apr 11 2012, 17:14) There...   Apr 12 2012, 13:41
|- - soulsearchingsun   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 12 2012, 13:4...   Apr 12 2012, 14:22
- - JimH   Here's a thread on the N-50 at computeraudioph...   Apr 11 2012, 17:19
- - Wombat   I only repeated what i read on that review that cl...   Apr 11 2012, 19:32
|- - Nessuno   QUOTE (Wombat @ Apr 11 2012, 20:32) I onl...   Apr 12 2012, 07:59
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (Nessuno @ Apr 12 2012, 07:59) I ma...   Apr 12 2012, 14:29
|- - Nessuno   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 12 2012, 15:2...   Apr 12 2012, 17:11
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (Nessuno @ Apr 12 2012, 17:11) By t...   Apr 13 2012, 15:23
|- - Nessuno   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 13 2012, 16:2...   Apr 13 2012, 19:25
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (Nessuno @ Apr 13 2012, 19:25) QUOT...   Apr 14 2012, 12:26
|- - Nessuno   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 14 2012, 13:2...   Apr 14 2012, 14:29
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (Nessuno @ Apr 14 2012, 14:29) The ...   Apr 14 2012, 15:42
- - Wombat   When i read the thread at CA that jimH linked to i...   Apr 12 2012, 13:54
- - greynol   It's a shame that you seem to be held up by th...   Apr 13 2012, 15:47
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (greynol @ Apr 13 2012, 15:47) It...   Apr 14 2012, 11:52
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (greynol @ Apr 13 2012, 15:47) It...   Apr 14 2012, 13:10
||- - JimH   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 14 2012, 07:1...   Apr 14 2012, 14:24
||- - greynol   QUOTE (JimH @ Apr 14 2012, 06:24) I agree...   Apr 14 2012, 16:37
||- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (greynol @ Apr 14 2012, 16:37) QUOT...   Apr 14 2012, 16:48
|- - Light-Fire   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 14 2012, 06:5...   Apr 14 2012, 17:13
|- - Nessuno   QUOTE (Light-Fire @ Apr 14 2012, 18...   Apr 14 2012, 18:08
- - db1989   What does that have to do with it? You made a clai...   Apr 14 2012, 16:53
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (db1989 @ Apr 14 2012, 16:53) What ...   Apr 14 2012, 18:54
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 14 2012, 18:5...   Apr 14 2012, 22:52
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (db1989 @ Apr 14 2012, 22:52) QUOTE...   Apr 15 2012, 13:25
|- - Nessuno   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 15 2012, 14:2...   Apr 15 2012, 14:17
|- - julf   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 15 2012, 14:2...   Apr 15 2012, 14:17
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (julf @ Apr 15 2012, 14:17) QUOTE (...   Apr 15 2012, 23:11
|- - julf   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 16 2012, 00:1...   Apr 16 2012, 06:42
|- - Nessuno   QUOTE (julf @ Apr 16 2012, 07:42) QUOTE (...   Apr 16 2012, 08:38
||- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (nessuno)Regarding A: no evidence has been f...   Apr 16 2012, 13:11
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (julf @ Apr 16 2012, 06:42) QUOTE (...   Apr 16 2012, 13:29
|- - julf   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 16 2012, 14:2...   Apr 16 2012, 16:18
- - greynol   It's possible that two downloaded versions of ...   Apr 14 2012, 18:17
- - greynol   Feel free to search the forum for ABX logs generat...   Apr 14 2012, 19:00
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (greynol @ Apr 14 2012, 19:00) Feel...   Apr 14 2012, 21:09
|- - julf   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 14 2012, 22:0...   Apr 15 2012, 10:51
|- - Nessuno   QUOTE (julf @ Apr 15 2012, 11:51) I guess...   Apr 15 2012, 11:47
||- - julf   QUOTE (Nessuno @ Apr 15 2012, 12:47) So, ...   Apr 15 2012, 12:10
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (julf @ Apr 15 2012, 10:51) QUOTE (...   Apr 15 2012, 13:47
|- - julf   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 15 2012, 14:4...   Apr 15 2012, 14:22
- - greynol   http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....lite=...   Apr 14 2012, 21:49
- - Roseval   Gapless First of all the audio format must support...   Apr 14 2012, 21:50
- - smok3   to the original question: I find it amazing that n...   Apr 15 2012, 12:06
- - greynol   http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showt...   Apr 15 2012, 17:30
- - db1989   That just seems paranoid to me. What kind of inte...   Apr 16 2012, 06:07
|- - Richard Kimber   QUOTE (db1989 @ Apr 16 2012, 06:07) That ...   Apr 16 2012, 12:31
|- - phofman   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 16 2012, 12:3...   Apr 16 2012, 19:13
- - greynol   That was my initial impression as well. However, i...   Apr 16 2012, 06:17
- - greynol   ...well, no, that was not ok.   Apr 16 2012, 16:34
- - Wolwgang   QUOTE (Richard Kimber @ Apr 10 2012, 15:2...   May 17 2012, 20:40


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