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Quantization Grid, Split from Topic ID #55966
KMD
post Mar 10 2012, 11:58
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I have thought that this phenomana may be real for years . I call it the "quantiztion grid". An analog waveform can change direction or cross the zero line at an infinite number of locations. Sampling and Quantization create a grid to which features of the waveform are statistically constrained. Increasing the sample rate at a fixed bandwidth inreases the quantization grid density. Whether it is perceivable is what is in question. This experiment may have proved it. I will give some thought to a simillar experiment that forum members can do for themselves and start a new topic on it.
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icstm
post Mar 19 2012, 17:14
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resolution is comparible with precision it is the "how many decimal places can I measure this to".
Accuracy is the "and are the significant digits right"
To say somthing has infinite resolution is only useful it that measurement is correct.
In the anologue world this is impacted by the sensitivity of the system. Are you saying you have an infinitely sensitive system?
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- KMD   Quantization Grid   Mar 10 2012, 11:58
- - AstralStorm   There's no "quantization grid", it...   Mar 10 2012, 17:28
|- - KMD   The quantization grid is not caused by sampling it...   Mar 10 2012, 21:30
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 11 2012, 00:30) The digi...   Mar 10 2012, 21:43
- - KMD   The output of the D to A is derived from a regular...   Mar 10 2012, 22:05
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 11 2012, 01:05) The outp...   Mar 10 2012, 22:21
- - Speedskater   About a year or so ago, j.j. wrote: In fact, we c...   Mar 10 2012, 22:16
- - KMD   Just for clarify when I say co-ordinate I mean x a...   Mar 10 2012, 22:21
- - KMD   ivqci - I am talking about regularity in the shape...   Mar 10 2012, 22:24
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 10 2012, 21:24) ivqci - ...   Mar 12 2012, 17:08
|- - KMD   when you say can be seen on a scope I guess you me...   Mar 12 2012, 17:23
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 12 2012, 16:23) when you...   Mar 12 2012, 18:23
- - lvqcl   But we cannot hear the shape.   Mar 10 2012, 22:31
- - KMD   lvqcl- But whatever we do hear must be derived f...   Mar 10 2012, 22:39
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 10 2012, 22:39) lvqcl- ...   Mar 11 2012, 12:50
|- - NullC   QUOTE (googlebot @ Mar 11 2012, 04:50) Th...   Mar 12 2012, 01:30
- - KMD   The movement of the quantization levels by ditheri...   Mar 12 2012, 15:58
- - KMD   Thanks for the discussion. My conclusion on this...   Mar 19 2012, 11:14
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 19 2012, 06:14) Thanks f...   Mar 19 2012, 13:39
- - KMD   Hello Arnold Signal to noise ratio, and resoluti...   Mar 19 2012, 14:28
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 19 2012, 09:28) Signal t...   Mar 20 2012, 19:23
- - icstm   Is Arnold not saying that the output signal might ...   Mar 19 2012, 15:14
- - KMD   Hi icstm An analogue recording system has infini...   Mar 19 2012, 15:19
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 19 2012, 10:19) Hi icstm...   Mar 20 2012, 19:30
- - 2Bdecided   Until you define the meaning of the term "res...   Mar 19 2012, 15:24
- - KMD   Resolution is the smallest detail a system can rec...   Mar 19 2012, 15:29
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 19 2012, 14:29) Resoluti...   Mar 19 2012, 15:48
- - KMD   Sampling has nothing to do with it . Sampling is t...   Mar 19 2012, 16:00
- - icstm   yes, but what makes you say a analogue signal can ...   Mar 19 2012, 16:07
- - KMD   I did not mention accuracy and precision. The subj...   Mar 19 2012, 16:11
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 19 2012, 15:11) I did no...   Mar 19 2012, 19:03
- - icstm   resolution is comparible with precision it is the ...   Mar 19 2012, 17:14
- - knutinh   Being able to recreate infinitely small signals wo...   Mar 19 2012, 23:32
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (knutinh @ Mar 19 2012, 22:32) Bein...   Mar 20 2012, 10:38
- - KMD   - icstm , you are confusing resolution with sign...   Mar 20 2012, 10:57
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 20 2012, 05:57) - icstm ...   Mar 20 2012, 19:33
- - icstm   no, I am saying that resolution is only relevant i...   Mar 20 2012, 11:28
- - KMD   No, the small variations in the waveform are there...   Mar 20 2012, 11:57
- - greynol   Why do you keep insisting that dither must be pres...   Mar 20 2012, 15:09
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 20 2012, 14:09) Why ...   Mar 20 2012, 17:33
|- - greynol   I'm more than a bit skeptical of that.   Mar 20 2012, 18:11
||- - pdq   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 20 2012, 13:11) I...   Mar 20 2012, 18:36
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 20 2012, 13:36) QUOTE (g...   Mar 20 2012, 19:36
|||- - greynol   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Mar 20 2012, 11...   Mar 20 2012, 19:42
|||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 20 2012, 18:42) QUOT...   Mar 20 2012, 19:52
|||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 20 2012, 14:52) QU...   Mar 20 2012, 20:02
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 20 2012, 17:36) I'm ...   Mar 20 2012, 19:43
||- - greynol   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 20 2012, 11:43) Th...   Mar 20 2012, 19:54
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 20 2012, 18:54) QUOT...   Mar 20 2012, 19:59
|||- - drewfx   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 20 2012, 13:59) Th...   Mar 20 2012, 21:13
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 20 2012, 18:54) not ...   Mar 20 2012, 20:03
|- - Speedskater   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 20 2012, 12:33) Fo...   Mar 21 2012, 00:34
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Speedskater @ Mar 20 2012, 23:34) ...   Mar 21 2012, 11:02
- - greynol   Are you trying to tell me inter-sample points don...   Mar 20 2012, 18:46
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 20 2012, 13:46) Are ...   Mar 20 2012, 19:41
- - pdq   The reconstruction filter only filters out frequen...   Mar 20 2012, 18:53
|- - greynol   QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 20 2012, 10:53) leaving ...   Mar 20 2012, 19:06
- - greynol   I edited my previous response to include your foll...   Mar 20 2012, 20:02
- - greynol   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 20 2012, 12:03) Fr...   Mar 20 2012, 20:08
- - 2Bdecided   Ah, maybe we're at cross purposes, and don...   Mar 20 2012, 20:09
- - googlebot   Aren't those pictures just showing that not en...   Mar 20 2012, 20:30
- - pdq   It's always present. Dither simply replaces mu...   Mar 20 2012, 21:30
- - drewfx   Understood. The point I'm making is that the ...   Mar 20 2012, 21:39
|- - greynol   QUOTE (drewfx @ Mar 20 2012, 13:39) The p...   Mar 20 2012, 21:43
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 20 2012, 21:43) QUOT...   Mar 20 2012, 22:07
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (googlebot @ Mar 20 2012, 21:07) 2B...   Mar 21 2012, 11:03
- - greynol   The image of the dithered 50Hz wave is pretty much...   Mar 20 2012, 21:40
- - greynol   Yet the "error" plainly indicates the av...   Mar 21 2012, 00:00
- - greynol   Yes, noise (thermal, shot, interference, etc.) tha...   Mar 21 2012, 01:03
- - KMD   At what stage did you add the dither noise David....   Mar 21 2012, 12:37
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 11:37) At what ...   Mar 21 2012, 13:10
- - KMD   The fact that you are sweeping the frequency adds ...   Mar 21 2012, 13:25
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 12:25) We don...   Mar 21 2012, 15:07
- - pdq   What would be the point? We have established that ...   Mar 21 2012, 14:50
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 21 2012, 13:50) What wou...   Mar 21 2012, 15:40
- - KMD   pdq -look at the 2nd image in 2bdecided post68 a...   Mar 21 2012, 15:08
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 14:08) pdq -loo...   Mar 21 2012, 15:48
- - KMD   David - What does the frequncey spectrum analys...   Mar 21 2012, 15:35
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 14:35) David - ...   Mar 21 2012, 15:45
- - KMD   Use the FFT to check that the harmonics are not th...   Mar 21 2012, 16:07
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 15:07) Use the ...   Mar 21 2012, 16:12
- - KMD   do the fft to confirm that the harmonics are not t...   Mar 21 2012, 16:16
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 15:16) do the f...   Mar 21 2012, 16:34
- - Rotareneg   Delta-sigma modulation must be a hoax.   Mar 21 2012, 16:40
- - KMD   " yes Boss" LOL I'm glad we can h...   Mar 21 2012, 17:11
- - KMD   The image in post 77 is way to square. A reconstr...   Mar 21 2012, 17:36
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 16:36) The imag...   Mar 21 2012, 17:46
- - KMD   When you say 8x oversampled to simulate reconstruc...   Mar 21 2012, 18:02
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 21:02) which co...   Mar 21 2012, 18:49
|- - greynol   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 10:02) is a gen...   Mar 21 2012, 20:40
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 13:02) But to s...   Mar 21 2012, 21:25
|- - drewfx   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 12:02) But to s...   Mar 22 2012, 01:18
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 21 2012, 17:02) When you...   Mar 22 2012, 11:13
|- - greynol   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 22 2012, 03:13) Be...   Mar 22 2012, 13:55
|- - pdq   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 22 2012, 08:55) Sinc...   Mar 22 2012, 14:24
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 22 2012, 12:55) My t...   Mar 22 2012, 14:57
- - KMD   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 20 2012, 18:52) I...   Mar 22 2012, 10:00
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 22 2012, 09:00) Because ...   Mar 22 2012, 11:03
- - greynol   What about ringing?   Mar 22 2012, 14:41
- - WernerO   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 22 2012, 14:41) What...   Mar 22 2012, 14:59
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