IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> foobar2000 Tech Support Forum Rules

Please read foobar2000 Tech Support Forum Rules before posting and comply with all the points.
Failure to provide all the information pointed out in the above document in your post is considered wasting other people's time and in extreme cases will lead to your topic getting locked without a reply.


See also: Hydrogenaudio Terms of Service.

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
foobar 2000 v.1.1.11 crashes at WASAPI 32 bit data format
egicar
post Mar 13 2012, 00:41
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 13-March 12
From: Italy
Member No.: 97750



Hi all,

I have a issue with my foobar2000 v.1.1.11: it crashes if I set it WASAPI (Musiland Monitor 03 US - latest stable driver) at 32 bit data format. I enabled HDCD feature in Musiland Monitor 03 US and it can run 32 bit 384KHz. It is connected to a USB 3.0 slot (Sapphire USB3.0 PCI-e card). My PC runs Windows 7 64 bit always updated (ASUS P5KC - 4 Gb RAM - Intel Core 2 Duo E6600).
If I set 24 bit data format in foobar2000, everything goes OK.
I sent reports when foobar2000 crashed.

Here are my components:
Core (2012-02-04 13:05:48 UTC)
foobar2000 core 1.1.11
foo_albumlist.dll (2012-02-04 13:04:12 UTC)
Album List 4.5
foo_cdda.dll (2012-02-04 13:03:52 UTC)
CD Audio Decoder 3.0
foo_converter.dll (2012-02-04 13:04:00 UTC)
Converter 1.5
foo_fileops.dll (2012-02-04 13:03:02 UTC)
File Operations 2.1.3
foo_freedb2.dll (2012-02-04 13:03:02 UTC)
freedb Tagger 0.6.4
foo_input_monkey.dll (2012-03-12 21:44:36 UTC)
Monkey's Audio Decoder 2.1.5
foo_input_std.dll (2012-02-04 13:05:10 UTC)
Standard Input Array 1.0
foo_out_wasapi.dll (2012-03-09 21:01:39 UTC)
WASAPI output support 2.1
foo_rgscan.dll (2012-02-04 13:03:48 UTC)
ReplayGain Scanner 2.1.2
foo_ui_std.dll (2012-02-04 13:04:08 UTC)
Default User Interface 0.9.5
foo_unpack.dll (2012-02-04 13:03:26 UTC)
ZIP/GZIP/RAR Reader 1.6

Do you have any idea about a solution?

Thanks a lot in advance.
Egidio from Italy

This post has been edited by egicar: Mar 13 2012, 00:44
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
egicar
post Mar 19 2012, 22:51
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 13-March 12
From: Italy
Member No.: 97750



Maybe I was not so clear unsure.gif ...
My issue consists in a crash of foobar2000 when I play a whatever bit format track (16 or 24 or 32 bit), if I set WASAPI to 32 bit data format.
When I set foobar2000 to 24 bit data format, the player works well with all bit format tracks (16, 24, 32 bit), but, I suppose, the max output resolution should be 24 bit (even if I play 32 bit tracks).
Can foobar2000 work at 32 bit data format with WASAPI? Is it a WASAPI issue or a foobar2000 issue?
My HW works great and I can play HDCD tracks without foobar2000 decoder component (the Musiland driver can do it).

Thanks again for any suggestion,

Egidio from Italy

This post has been edited by egicar: Mar 19 2012, 22:51
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kode54
post Mar 20 2012, 00:56
Post #3





Group: Admin
Posts: 4691
Joined: 15-December 02
Member No.: 4082



If they're 32-bit integer format, foobar2000 is lopping off bits already anyway, since it uses 32-bit floating point internally, which does not have the precision to represent 32 bit integer numbers accurately.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Bonzite55
post Mar 20 2012, 07:01
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 20-March 12
Member No.: 97931



The same/similar situation with foobar crash, differ just it is not depending from sample rate choosen, more likely some other bug:

''Unrecoverable playback error: The device is not ready. (0x80070015)''

Helps usb disconection and reconecting again.

Any idea?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
egicar
post Mar 20 2012, 19:55
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 13-March 12
From: Italy
Member No.: 97750



QUOTE (kode54 @ Mar 20 2012, 00:56) *
If they're 32-bit integer format, foobar2000 is lopping off bits already anyway, since it uses 32-bit floating point internally, which does not have the precision to represent 32 bit integer numbers accurately.

Thanks for the reply, kode54.

When I say crash, I mean foobar2000 closes itself (little window: foobar2000 stops to work ... etc). When I open again foobar2000, I see a window were I can chose to start in safe mode, check the online troubleshooting or start normally. No problems found by online troubleshooting; so I start normally and set 24 bit data format without problems palying 16/24 bit data format.
I'm sure that my hardware can manage 32 bit /384.0 KHz data format; so, I suppose that this could be an actual foobar2000 limitation. Am I right?

Thanks again in advance.

This post has been edited by egicar: Mar 20 2012, 19:56
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kode54
post Mar 20 2012, 21:52
Post #6





Group: Admin
Posts: 4691
Joined: 15-December 02
Member No.: 4082



The crashing would probably be a WASAPI limitation, or at least a limitation of the foobar2000 implementation. Try lowering the sound buffer duration?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
egicar
post Mar 21 2012, 20:24
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 13-March 12
From: Italy
Member No.: 97750



QUOTE (kode54 @ Mar 20 2012, 21:52) *
The crashing would probably be a WASAPI limitation, or at least a limitation of the foobar2000 implementation. Try lowering the sound buffer duration?

I've tried the lowest (50 ms) buffer size, and now I have set 1000 ms (below this value, I read the Waring), but in both cases foobar2000 crashes (with 32 bit data format, of course).
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kode54
post Mar 21 2012, 22:05
Post #8





Group: Admin
Posts: 4691
Joined: 15-December 02
Member No.: 4082



Maybe your drivers don't actually support 32 bit output.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kode54
post Mar 21 2012, 22:27
Post #9





Group: Admin
Posts: 4691
Joined: 15-December 02
Member No.: 4082



Oh, right, silly me. I forgot. Maybe the 32 bit output mode in the WASAPI driver is trying to use 32 bit floating point, not 32 bit integer. Since, you know, foobar2000 can't really output 32 bit integer precision anyway, since the floating point format does not support that much mantissa precision.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
egicar
post Mar 21 2012, 22:42
Post #10





Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 13-March 12
From: Italy
Member No.: 97750



QUOTE (kode54 @ Mar 21 2012, 22:27) *
Oh, right, silly me. I forgot. Maybe the 32 bit output mode in the WASAPI driver is trying to use 32 bit floating point, not 32 bit integer. Since, you know, foobar2000 can't really output 32 bit integer precision anyway, since the floating point format does not support that much mantissa precision.

Thanks a lot again, kode54,

I can hear 24 bit/352.8 KHz music with great satisfaction. So I can wait for the next developements about 32 bit data format: I'm only 55 smile.gif

Ciao,
Egidio
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Bonzite55
post Mar 22 2012, 06:57
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 20-March 12
Member No.: 97931



I can not achieve more than red book default 16bit 44kHz.

This goes more or less stable.

In my case it looks like Win7 looses this USB connected DAC...

When it happened also WASAPI USB out disappearing from Foobar output setting.

Then you need to reconnect USB, restart Foobar, choose WASAPI USB output at the Foobar out settings.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
lvqcl
post Mar 22 2012, 15:52
Post #12





Group: Developer
Posts: 3467
Joined: 2-December 07
Member No.: 49183



QUOTE (egicar @ Mar 22 2012, 01:42) *
I can hear 24 bit/352.8 KHz music with great satisfaction. So I can wait for the next developements about 32 bit data format: I'm only 55 smile.gif


http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/...-monitor-03-us/

QUOTE
The PCM1798 DAC in the Musiland 03 device is a 24 bit device. In I2S mode it accepts 24 bits of data on a 32 bit data frame as shown in the datasheet [...] Notice that there is data beyond bit 24 on either the left frame or the right frame. This indicates that 32 bits of data is delivered all the way to the DAC. The DAC, being a 24 bit device, truncates the data from 32 bit to 24 bit.

lalala.gif
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
db1989
post Mar 22 2012, 16:37
Post #13





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 5275
Joined: 23-June 06
Member No.: 32180



QUOTE (egicar @ Mar 21 2012, 21:42) *
I can hear 24 bit/352.8 KHz music with great satisfaction. So I can wait for the next developements about 32 bit data format: I'm only 55 smile.gif

Please read #8 of the Terms of Service and bear it in mind in the future.

It is very unlikely that any given listener can distinguish such high resolutions as these from lower ones such as those of CDDA. Performing a double-blind comparison, as described at the above link, might be revealing.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Kohlrabi
post Mar 22 2012, 18:52
Post #14





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 1150
Joined: 12-March 05
From: Kiel, Germany
Member No.: 20561



QUOTE (db1989 @ Mar 22 2012, 16:37) *
QUOTE (egicar @ Mar 21 2012, 21:42) *
I can hear 24 bit/352.8 KHz music with great satisfaction. So I can wait for the next developements about 32 bit data format: I'm only 55 smile.gif

Please read #8 of the Terms of Service and bear it in mind in the future.

db1989, I don't see any statement made by the user that he hears any advantages using 24bit / 352 kHz, only that he uses this setting. My impression is that this thread is only debating a technical aspect of the WASAPI output method. That these kinds of settings offer no advantage at all (from a perceptual/consumption standpoint) is a completely different discussion and was not touched here.

Don't misunderstand me, I wholeheartedly welcome your effort in trying to lead the people towards the recognition of the truth. But I think that we should not try to put down any topic mentioning high-resolutions with a simple ToS #8-hammer. In that light I'm all for a sticky topic "16bit/44khz is enough for everyone, if you don't think so, prove it." to refer people to, since I expect the future to hold many "high-res quality claims" topics on HA.

This post has been edited by Kohlrabi: Mar 22 2012, 18:58


--------------------
It's only audiophile if it's inconvenient.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
egicar
post Mar 22 2012, 20:16
Post #15





Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 13-March 12
From: Italy
Member No.: 97750



QUOTE (lvqcl @ Mar 22 2012, 15:52) *
QUOTE (egicar @ Mar 22 2012, 01:42) *
I can hear 24 bit/352.8 KHz music with great satisfaction. So I can wait for the next developements about 32 bit data format: I'm only 55 smile.gif


http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/...-monitor-03-us/

QUOTE
The PCM1798 DAC in the Musiland 03 device is a 24 bit device. In I2S mode it accepts 24 bits of data on a 32 bit data frame as shown in the datasheet [...] Notice that there is data beyond bit 24 on either the left frame or the right frame. This indicates that 32 bits of data is delivered all the way to the DAC. The DAC, being a 24 bit device, truncates the data from 32 bit to 24 bit.

lalala.gif

Thanks for your specifications! Now, I have learned another thing about my new audio device.

This post has been edited by egicar: Mar 22 2012, 20:16
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
egicar
post Mar 22 2012, 20:20
Post #16





Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 13-March 12
From: Italy
Member No.: 97750



QUOTE (db1989 @ Mar 22 2012, 16:37) *
QUOTE (egicar @ Mar 21 2012, 21:42) *
I can hear 24 bit/352.8 KHz music with great satisfaction. So I can wait for the next developements about 32 bit data format: I'm only 55 smile.gif

Please read #8 of the Terms of Service and bear it in mind in the future.

It is very unlikely that any given listener can distinguish such high resolutions as these from lower ones such as those of CDDA. Performing a double-blind comparison, as described at the above link, might be revealing.


I'm so sorry crying.gif . It was not my intention to make comparisons of any kind.
I'm new in the liquid music. Until today, I had not much confidence in this mode of reproduction. I always listened to music from the turntable (Pro-Ject 1 Xpression) or CD player (Onkyo DX200).
So, I am an absolute beginner and as such, I'm trying to understand, to inquire and learn.

This post has been edited by egicar: Mar 22 2012, 20:21
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Kohlrabi
post Mar 22 2012, 21:20
Post #17





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 1150
Joined: 12-March 05
From: Kiel, Germany
Member No.: 20561



QUOTE (egicar @ Mar 22 2012, 20:20) *
So, I am an absolute beginner and as such, I'm trying to understand, to inquire and learn.

Generally, unless you have very specific reasons to use WASAPI, like for example bit-perfect output to an external receiver, it is recommended to stick to DirectSound, since it is the most tested and well behaved of the output methods. So far nobody has been able to provide definitive proof that WASAPI output (or ASIO output for that matter) offers any benefit over DirectSound output. What I mean to say is that alternative output methods lead to lots of problems without any perceptible benefits. The same is true for bit depths which exceed 16 bit resolution, and sample rates beyond 44.1 kHz.

Instead of buying into the audiophile arms race of dials which go up to eleven and sample rates which touch the MHz range, it is much easier and less of a hassle to just stick to the proved realities, and that is that CD quality audio (16bit/44.1kHz) is good enough, as is DirectSound output.

This post has been edited by Kohlrabi: Mar 22 2012, 21:21


--------------------
It's only audiophile if it's inconvenient.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
egicar
post Mar 22 2012, 22:22
Post #18





Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 13-March 12
From: Italy
Member No.: 97750



QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Mar 22 2012, 21:20) *
QUOTE (egicar @ Mar 22 2012, 20:20) *
So, I am an absolute beginner and as such, I'm trying to understand, to inquire and learn.

Generally, unless you have very specific reasons to use WASAPI, like for example bit-perfect output to an external receiver, it is recommended to stick to DirectSound, since it is the most tested and well behaved of the output methods. So far nobody has been able to provide definitive proof that WASAPI output (or ASIO output for that matter) offers any benefit over DirectSound output. What I mean to say is that alternative output methods lead to lots of problems without any perceptible benefits. The same is true for bit depths which exceed 16 bit resolution, and sample rates beyond 44.1 kHz.

Instead of buying into the audiophile arms race of dials which go up to eleven and sample rates which touch the MHz range, it is much easier and less of a hassle to just stick to the proved realities, and that is that CD quality audio (16bit/44.1kHz) is good enough, as is DirectSound output.

Thank you very much for your considerations, Kohlrabi.
I have set WASAPI following some tips in the Musiland forum, expecially to be able to use HDCD capability of my new device.
I'll try DS in the next days, but I have not had any problem with WASAPI, until now (excluding using 32 bit output data format smile.gif ).

Ciao,
Egidio

This post has been edited by egicar: Mar 22 2012, 22:22
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Kohlrabi
post Mar 22 2012, 22:45
Post #19





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 1150
Joined: 12-March 05
From: Kiel, Germany
Member No.: 20561



QUOTE (egicar @ Mar 22 2012, 22:22) *
expecially to be able to use HDCD capability of my new device.

kode54 has created a nice HDCD decoding component for foobar2000, which you could also try. cool.gif


--------------------
It's only audiophile if it's inconvenient.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st December 2014 - 21:59