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xiphmont’s ‘There is no point to distributing music in 24 bit/192 kHz’, Article: “24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed”
NullC
post Mar 6 2012, 03:14
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Of interest, but certainly not news to anyone here is Monty's educational piece regarding the lack of value of 24/192 as a distribution format:

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

Some of the commentary on the internet has been not especially well informed, for example there are some crazy claims at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3668310. If you're in a "someone is wrong on the internet!" correcting mood, you might want to go leave some comments in furtherance of the collective intelligence of mankind.

Cheers
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Porcus
post Mar 7 2012, 12:57
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My sixth sense (i.e., my faithful placebo) just took an hour break from its ever enduring task of convincing me how bad -V0 sounds,
just to enlighten Ye all on where the hi-res race will take us from here:
  • old recordings made with equipment far short of 192/24 (including recordings digitally recorded and mixed at 48kHz) will be remastered at 192/24;
  • people will buy 192/24's and some smartass will compare to the ripped CD, finding that [F|A]LACing both files will keep the hi-res down at, say, 15% above the CD rip size;
  • this will be taken as proof that WAVE sounds better than lossless compression -- otherwise it wouldn't be able to keep a 6x as big file down below the size of a CDrip.wav;
  • others will point out that good'ole analogue recordings, with all the ultrasonic tape hiss (that probably was never recorded, but is played-back now), cannot be compressed equally well, another proof of the shortcoming of the CD format;
  • the ultrasonics will produce intermodulation distortion in hi-fi which were designed at reproducing only the audible range. Equipment A which isn't sufficiently protected against 96 kHz signal, will get the thumbs down from audiophiles worldwide (and some of it will even go up in flames in a comparison against equipment B, so that the subsequently played 'X' can be identified correctly as 'B' with nearly 100% hit rate). Their explanation will be closer to truth than much other snakeoil marketing -- you just have to replace the 'failure to cope with harmful noise' with 'failure to cope with higher fidelity signal'
  • loudspeaker manufacturers will produce and fit ultratweeters for the ultrasonic domain, at the praises from audiophiles worldwide. And lo and behold, there will every now and then be a found a thoughtless 'high-quality crossover that relieves the tweeter at 22 kHz' phrase in a marketing web page;
  • economists will confirm the modest increase in annual GDP, a sign that everyone is happier (bar some grumpy misers over at hydrogenaudio.org).

Kindly brought to you by Porcus Prophecies, Inc.
(with all reservations for mild exaggregations, a bias which my faithful placebo might sometimes be prone to)

This post has been edited by Porcus: Mar 7 2012, 13:00


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Posts in this topic
- NullC   xiphmont’s ‘There is no point to distributing music in 24 bit/192 kHz’   Mar 6 2012, 03:14
- - NullC   It's also on slashdot now: http://news.slashdo...   Mar 6 2012, 05:36
- - Canar   RE: xiphmont’s ‘There is no point to distributing music in 24 bit/192 kHz’   Mar 6 2012, 05:52
|- - mudlord   QUOTE (Canar @ Mar 5 2012, 22:52)   Mar 6 2012, 06:08
|- - xiphmont   QUOTE (Canar @ Mar 5 2012, 23:52) Oooh,...   Mar 9 2012, 09:12
|- - Canar   QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 9 2012, 00:12) Oooh...   Mar 9 2012, 16:36
- - DigitalMan   Very, very nicely done. Long live TOS #8.   Mar 6 2012, 06:27
- - Carledwards   Excellent. Glad to see this and I hope it gets wid...   Mar 6 2012, 08:50
- - Batman321   Great article! Meanwhile in a parallel u...   Mar 6 2012, 09:00
- - Porcus   At the risk of spinning off a digression: what is ...   Mar 6 2012, 09:32
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Porcus @ Mar 6 2012, 03:32) At the...   Mar 6 2012, 14:41
- - skamp   ^^^ http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/03/odac-updat...   Mar 6 2012, 10:27
- - AndyH-ha   The answer depends on conditions, like the chem la...   Mar 6 2012, 10:39
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Mar 6 2012, 10:39)...   Mar 6 2012, 13:30
||- - saratoga   QUOTE (Porcus @ Mar 6 2012, 07:30) QUOTE ...   Mar 6 2012, 18:26
|- - DonP   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Mar 6 2012, 05:39)...   Mar 6 2012, 13:59
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (DonP @ Mar 6 2012, 07:59) QUOTE (A...   Mar 6 2012, 14:45
|- - Martel   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Mar 6 2012, 11:39)...   Mar 6 2012, 15:15
- - hlloyge   Finally. Thank you.   Mar 6 2012, 11:25
- - razer   Such a great read.   Mar 6 2012, 13:16
- - dumdidum   Monty: "The more that pseudoscience goes unch...   Mar 6 2012, 14:52
- - Wombat   QUOTE (NullC @ Mar 6 2012, 03:14) Some of...   Mar 6 2012, 17:02
- - Satellite_6   "It's hard to fake ambisonics or holograp...   Mar 6 2012, 20:56
- - jensend   By the by, I recently added a little writeup about...   Mar 6 2012, 22:53
|- - klonuo   QUOTE (jensend @ Mar 6 2012, 23:53) By th...   Mar 7 2012, 00:04
- - soulsearchingsun   From the article: QUOTE Audibility of a CD-Standar...   Mar 6 2012, 23:39
|- - pdq   QUOTE (soulsearchingsun @ Mar 6 2012, 17...   Mar 7 2012, 03:41
|- - WernerO   QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 7 2012, 03:41) QUOTE (so...   Mar 7 2012, 09:04
|- - soulsearchingsun   QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 7 2012, 03:41) QUOTE (so...   Mar 7 2012, 11:00
- - wakibaki   I'm happy to see a truly coherent argument aga...   Mar 7 2012, 00:57
|- - NullC   QUOTE (wakibaki @ Mar 6 2012, 16:57) This...   Mar 7 2012, 01:34
|- - BearcatSandor   QUOTE (wakibaki @ Mar 6 2012, 17:57) I...   Mar 7 2012, 07:50
- - wakibaki   I thought he made good points, but he quoted Meyer...   Mar 7 2012, 01:54
|- - xiphmont   QUOTE (wakibaki @ Mar 6 2012, 19:54) I th...   Mar 9 2012, 10:12
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 9 2012, 10:12) The ...   Mar 9 2012, 12:43
||- - icstm   QUOTE (Porcus @ Mar 9 2012, 11:43) If som...   Mar 9 2012, 16:16
||- - greynol   QUOTE (icstm @ Mar 9 2012, 07:16) how doe...   Mar 9 2012, 16:45
||- - Porcus   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 9 2012, 16:45) QUOTE...   Mar 9 2012, 17:05
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 9 2012, 04:12) QUOT...   Mar 9 2012, 23:18
||- - xiphmont   QUOTE (krabapple @ Mar 9 2012, 17:18) Tha...   Mar 10 2012, 03:12
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 9 2012, 21:12) Exce...   Mar 10 2012, 23:09
||- - FreaqyFrequency   QUOTE (krabapple @ Mar 10 2012, 17:09) po...   Mar 11 2012, 04:27
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (FreaqyFrequency @ Mar 11 2012, 03...   Mar 11 2012, 20:42
|||- - xiphmont   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 11 2012, 14:42) QU...   Mar 11 2012, 21:01
|||- - Porcus   QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 11 2012, 21:01) As ...   Mar 11 2012, 23:05
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (FreaqyFrequency @ Mar 10 2012, 22...   Mar 12 2012, 05:09
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (krabapple @ Mar 12 2012, 04:09) Th...   Mar 12 2012, 10:48
|- - wakibaki   QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 9 2012, 09:12) QUOT...   Mar 14 2012, 15:07
- - BearcatSandor   The article mentions that SACDs often sound better...   Mar 7 2012, 05:49
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Mar 6 2012, 23:49)...   Mar 9 2012, 22:55
- - 2Bdecided   I think this is a fantastic article. Without wis...   Mar 7 2012, 11:19
- - Porcus   My sixth sense (i.e., my faithful placebo) just to...   Mar 7 2012, 12:57
- - icstm   This article is a perfect answer to my FIRST quest...   Mar 7 2012, 15:20
- - LaserSokrates   An excellent read, thank you very much! A bit ...   Mar 9 2012, 23:35
- - hellokeith   Does the statement of the benefits of mixing/maste...   Mar 11 2012, 00:57
|- - icstm   QUOTE (hellokeith @ Mar 10 2012, 23:57) D...   Mar 13 2012, 16:43
|- - drewfx   QUOTE (icstm @ Mar 13 2012, 10:43) I woul...   Mar 13 2012, 17:43
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (drewfx @ Mar 13 2012, 16:43) QUOTE...   Mar 14 2012, 10:33
|- - drewfx   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 14 2012, 04:33) QU...   Mar 14 2012, 16:41
|- - icstm   QUOTE (drewfx @ Mar 14 2012, 15:41) Yes. ...   Mar 15 2012, 16:34
|- - drewfx   I'm unaware of any audio processing where inau...   Mar 15 2012, 17:35
- - Wombat   At first i have to congrat Monty that he gave us t...   Mar 11 2012, 02:54
|- - julf   QUOTE (Wombat @ Mar 11 2012, 02:54) Greet...   Mar 11 2012, 11:26
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Wombat @ Mar 10 2012, 17:54) There...   Mar 11 2012, 19:33
- - moozooh   In my opinion, the problem we need to focus on is ...   Mar 11 2012, 16:37
- - Wombat   What about recent CD versions that obviously don´t...   Mar 11 2012, 17:42
- - skamp   We're talking about a forum that's called ...   Mar 12 2012, 11:28
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (skamp @ Mar 12 2012, 11:28) while ...   Mar 12 2012, 13:18
|- - icstm   QUOTE (skamp @ Mar 12 2012, 10:28) We...   Mar 12 2012, 17:57
- - bandpass   From the article: QUOTE Modern work flows may invo...   Mar 13 2012, 11:19
|- - SebastianG   QUOTE (bandpass @ Mar 13 2012, 11:19) Fro...   Mar 13 2012, 11:49
- - bandpass   Yes, so while a pure float32 system could have pro...   Mar 13 2012, 12:24
- - pdq   I would hardly call float32 a danger zone. Even wh...   Mar 13 2012, 14:07
|- - icstm   QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 13 2012, 13:07) I would ...   Mar 13 2012, 16:12
- - bandpass   Yes, but if "Modern work flows may involve li...   Mar 13 2012, 15:24
|- - SebastianG   QUOTE (bandpass @ Mar 13 2012, 15:24) Yes...   Mar 13 2012, 15:33
- - bandpass   Yes, the "sqrt rule" applies: 1000 (but...   Mar 13 2012, 16:09
- - mixminus1   QUOTE BTW, did we get an asnwer to this? Yes, it w...   Mar 13 2012, 17:11
- - IgorC   How about just wide public test for 16/44.1, 22/44...   Mar 14 2012, 01:43
- - Wombat   Where is Adam Savage & Jamie Hyneman when you ...   Mar 14 2012, 01:52
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (Wombat @ Mar 14 2012, 01:52) Where...   Mar 14 2012, 07:42
- - krabapple   There is no point in distributing audio to consume...   Mar 14 2012, 16:44
- - greynol   It should be pretty clear from the title of the di...   Mar 15 2012, 17:48
|- - icstm   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 15 2012, 16:48) It s...   Mar 16 2012, 11:22
- - greynol   It's really a moot point since 16/44.1 can rep...   Mar 15 2012, 19:14
- - krabapple   xiphmont: evolver's reposting of your article ...   Oct 11 2012, 20:53
|- - bandpass   QUOTE Papers with interesting ideas and no data (e...   Oct 12 2012, 05:51
- - Patrunjica   Fascinating read, there has been one sticking poin...   Oct 13 2012, 23:51
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 13 2012, 18:51) I...   Oct 14 2012, 00:01
- - greynol   Your wave editor is connecting the samples with st...   Oct 13 2012, 23:59
- - Patrunjica   QUOTE (saratoga @ Oct 14 2012, 02:01) You...   Oct 14 2012, 00:13
|- - drewfx   QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 13 2012, 19:13) F...   Oct 14 2012, 00:28
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 13 2012, 19:13) f...   Oct 14 2012, 00:46
- - Wombat   QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 14 2012, 00:51) W...   Oct 14 2012, 00:26
- - Patrunjica   True, but each time they repeat they are different...   Oct 14 2012, 01:13
- - greynol   QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 13 2012, 17:13) I...   Oct 14 2012, 01:24
- - splice   QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 13 2012, 17:13) ....   Oct 14 2012, 01:39
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