IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Can we play genuine DSD Stream with PCs?, Moved (back) to Audio Hardware by request
Happy Water
post Feb 15 2012, 23:41
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 27-January 09
Member No.: 66082



Hi,

now ripping a SACD is possible and we can play SACD ISO with foobar2000.
But still, we must convert DSD stream to a PCM stream and then output it to the PC soundcard or
a DA/C through USB 1394 HDMI or SPIDF, etc..

I saw the autodetect ASIO Driver Mode in foo_input_sacd plugin Preferences page of foobar2000, but I don't know any Devices(both soundcard and DAC)
that supports it. Now I'm really looking forward to a scheme that can play genuine DSD Stream with PC...

Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks...
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
saratoga
post Feb 21 2012, 01:34
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 5001
Joined: 2-September 02
Member No.: 3264



Internally most DACs seem to prefer to work with DSD by first converting it to the same intermediate format as they do PCM audio, so I'm not sure theres any point in trying to play DSD on the PC. You can get more or less the same effect using the PCM interface as the DSD one (at least assuming you have a high enough sampling rate).
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Happy Water
post Feb 21 2012, 10:58
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 27-January 09
Member No.: 66082



QUOTE (saratoga @ Feb 21 2012, 01:34) *
Internally most DACs seem to prefer to work with DSD by first converting it to the same intermediate format as they do PCM audio, so I'm not sure theres any point in trying to play DSD on the PC. You can get more or less the same effect using the PCM interface as the DSD one (at least assuming you have a high enough sampling rate).

"intermediate format" do you mean that some DACs prefer to convert PCM into Analog Signal by using delta-sigma modulation(or just like a Class D Amplifier)?
I'm not sure what do you mean.But in my poor opinion, only a few Products perform such actions, so it doesn't matter a lot to the topic.

In theory, we need just a LPF to convert a DSD bit stream into an Analog Signal(however, to achieve a good sound quality, a good implementation is necessary).
And converting DSD into PCM will loss almost all the advantages of DSD(Base Band SNR, bitrate, etc.). <--Anyway, PCM does not have such a high sampling rate as DSD do, thus, we can never Cover(convert without any theorical losses) a DSD stream by a PCM stream.
That is why I turned to Devices that *REALLY* support DSD playing. Even if there is not so much difference in sound quality that I can hear.
In one word, I'm trying to find out a theorically ideal device(no matter Soundcard or DAC).

On the other hand, just like we rip CDs into PC. PC can provide us flexible interface, large storage space and lots of other conveniences. So it is not pointless in trying to play DSD on the PC.

Still on my way...
Please help.Thanks.

This post has been edited by Happy Water: Feb 21 2012, 11:01
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
saratoga
post Feb 21 2012, 23:31
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 5001
Joined: 2-September 02
Member No.: 3264



QUOTE (Happy Water @ Feb 21 2012, 04:58) *
QUOTE (saratoga @ Feb 21 2012, 01:34) *
Internally most DACs seem to prefer to work with DSD by first converting it to the same intermediate format as they do PCM audio, so I'm not sure theres any point in trying to play DSD on the PC. You can get more or less the same effect using the PCM interface as the DSD one (at least assuming you have a high enough sampling rate).

"intermediate format" do you mean that some DACs prefer to convert PCM into Analog Signal by using delta-sigma modulation(or just like a Class D Amplifier)?
I'm not sure what do you mean.But in my poor opinion, only a few Products perform such actions, so it doesn't matter a lot to the topic.


I think the most common approach is to lowpass/decimate the DSD into PCM and then play that down the same pathway used for normal PCM audio. This way the same chip can be used for either format.

QUOTE (Happy Water @ Feb 21 2012, 04:58) *
How much loss is there when we convert DSD to PCM(especially 176.4KHz 24bit, by foo_input_sacd Plugin or AudioGate) for playing those Albums which are claimed recorded and mixed under Pure DSD Environment? (if any?)


DSD systems tend to lowpass at 50kHz, so compared to that 24/176.4k would have essentially no loss (well baring some tiny rounding error that would be far below the noise floor anyway).
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Roseval
post Feb 22 2012, 10:59
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 489
Joined: 26-March 08
Member No.: 52303



QUOTE (saratoga @ Feb 21 2012, 23:31) *
DSD systems tend to lowpass at 50kHz


This is recommanded by the DSD standard.
Probably to protect your system against the high amount of quantization noise.


DSD quantisation noise with a sampling rate of 64 times 44.06 kHz.
Malcolm Hawksford, Essex University, UK

A good read:
Why 1-Bit Sigma-Delta Conversion is Unsuitable for High-Quality Applications
Stanley P. Lipshitz and John Vanderkooy
http://sjeng.org/ftp/SACD.pdf


--------------------
TheWellTemperedComputer.com
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 1st October 2014 - 17:36