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Jplay - just another scam? YES IT IS!
kraut
post Jan 12 2012, 05:05
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http://jplay.eu/

QUOTE
JPLAY was built with only one goal in mind: optimal music reproduction. Its stripped-down, bare-bones playback engine fits completely inside CPU cache and can be used as stand-alone player or together with popular music management software:

JPLAY is the first audiophile player providing direct integration with JRiver Media center, foobar2000 and iTunes.

There is a GUI panel included for quick & easy adjustment of most important settings. This now makes JPLAY easier to use than ever and leverages hosts’ GUI with JPLAY’s Award-Winning audio playback technology.


Can someone explain of what the use a player within the foobar2000 player is?
It is better because:

QUOTE
jplay pre-loads complete playlist into RAM guaranteeing zero disk I/O during music reproduction.
Maximal Priority Scheduling
ultra low latency capabilities
Maximal Priority Scheduling Ensure uninterrupted flow of music data by running music playback at highest possible priority.
Hibernation Mode
multicore audio playback
Hibernation Mode Cancel OS ‘noise’ by eliminating dozens of OS jitter-inducing processes & hundreds of threads!
?

Is there any veracity to such claims? Knowing what little I know about computer audio (which is not all that much, despite having put together my own audio server with all the necessary hard and software) I really doubt there is any substance to the assertions. The only benefit I can see is to the developer charging something like 99$.....

This post has been edited by kraut: Jan 12 2012, 05:18
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kraut
post Jan 23 2012, 01:18
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I took the graphical display of the measurements, and aligned them to the same heights on different tabs, so when clicking from one to the next tab any differences can be visualized immediately. And guess what..the only differences show up in the noise level below -100db, and all it did was move those "spikes", actually more "spikelets" to a slightly higher frequency. As to the rest...there is no there there.
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josef
post Jan 23 2012, 01:33
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Ouroboros: perhaps you think it’s so simple but forgive me for being pedantic: remember, first it was insinuated that we somehow ‘manipulate’ bitstream and therefore ‘trick’ people into hearing a difference – thankfully somebody here was not lazy and did a test which proved that insinuation had no merit…
Then we were asked to provide measurements that demonstrate there is a difference in output between different players playing identical bitstream – we did that too…
Then we got accused of making false/impossible claims i.e. code in cache etc: we answered those too…

All this time I keep asking anyone to provide one piece of evidence that software does not do what it specifies – nobody came forward with anything as it turns out that, satirically, pretty much nobody actually tried it… Please note I make no claims of SQ this or that way as that is not allowed here without ‘blind test’! I think that fetish is a silly rule but ok it’s your forum and I try to abide by rules. Therefore: The software has to do things it promises – that is the ONLY ‘claim ‘ I make! If you have any doubt about that please state it and I will personally demonstrate to you how to measure the effect of each program option! (see below for contact details)

Now, I do happen to believe (as do hundreds of others) that these ‘system & playback optimizations’ have a net positive effect on sq, yes – but no I did not ask all those hundreds of people to send me ABX logs, lol.

If you don’t understand how ridiculous that would look then I’m afraid I can’t help you. Having said that I fully support any initiative you want to come up with: Bug80 offered to do some ‘blind testing’ and I will support him in that – perhaps you want to join? But, again, that is not what this thread is about as it was not me who started it, and no, Sir, I don’t have to prove you anything – those making false personal accusations have to and they have failed, miserably… Remember, we live in democracy ‘innocent until proven guilty’ not the other way round as some here think it should be….

From now on I will only answer specific questions via mail (you can contact me at support@jplay.eu I promise to reply within 24 hours) or if Bug80 or anybody needs any help with their testing which I am looking forward to!
I simply have no time for this circus as my plate is chock full with ton of work that needs to be done this week (yes I do have a day job completely unrelated to this hobby of mine…)
Cheerio and thanks all for your time and passion even if it was a bit misguided at times but ok I guess you have to try everything at least once… (hint: do try it wink.gif…)
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db1989
post Jan 23 2012, 01:48
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QUOTE (josef @ Jan 23 2012, 00:33) *
Ouroboros: perhaps you think it’s so simple but forgive me for being pedantic: remember, first it was insinuated that we somehow ‘manipulate’ bitstream and therefore ‘trick’ people into hearing a difference – thankfully somebody here was not lazy and did a test which proved that insinuation had no merit…
Do you mean that your program does not produce any difference beyond the random variation perfectly predicted by the non-deterministic nature of analogue sound output? Do you really think that can be turned round into evidence in your favour? wacko.gif

QUOTE
Then we were asked to provide measurements that demonstrate there is a difference in output between different players playing identical bitstream – we did that too…
What, a link to some forum of unknown and quite possibly completely unqualified Russian individuals, saying something most of us can neither understand natively nor be bothered viewing in cod-mode through Google Translate, and which might be nonsense anyway? And even if it weren’t, which is a big if: this one instance, which I think is with some other player (is it?), is supposed to verify that your player creates an audible improvement (since that’s what you claim, despite you dodging it earlier in favour of some nonspecific “difference”) all the time?

Really?

QUOTE
All this time I keep asking anyone to provide one piece of evidence that software does not do what it specifies – nobody came forward with anything as it turns out that, satirically, pretty much nobody actually tried it… Please note I make no claims of SQ this or that way as that is not allowed here without ‘blind test’! I think that fetish is a silly rule but ok it’s your forum and I try to abide by rules. Therefore: The software has to do things it promises – that is the ONLY ‘claim ‘ I make! If you have any doubt about that please state it and I will personally demonstrate to you how to measure the effect of each program option! (see below for contact details)
You are claiming a significant (i.e. non-stochastic, etc.) difference. That difference has been used, at least on your site—and by implication here—to argue that your player produces superior sound quality and is worth 99 EUR. Given this and things like the above and the rest of the thread, do you expect people not to demand evidence? That is, after all, the requirement of ToS8, which you claim to “try to abide by” but so far have ignored. And, as myself and another member have said, why exactly are you not jumping at the chance to further promote your own financial interests by providing such evidence?

QUOTE
If you don’t understand how ridiculous that would look then I’m afraid I can’t help you. Having said that I fully support any initiative you want to come up with: Bug80 offered to do some ‘blind testing’ and I will support him in that – perhaps you want to join?
Good on Bug80, but you were directed to ToS8 numerous times much earlier in the thread, and yet you did not pick up the lead to blind testing on those occasions.

QUOTE
But, again, that is not what this thread is about as it was not me who started it, and no, Sir, I don’t have to prove you anything – those making false personal accusations have to and they have failed, miserably… Remember, we live in democracy ‘innocent until proven guilty’ not the other way round as some here think it should be….
Oh, so you’re allowed to make pejorative insinuations about people, in this case implying some totalitarian tendency? For what it’s worth, I doubt that’s the case for any of us as individuals, and it’s not really applicable to the running of a forum anyway, but yes: Hydrogenaudio, like any other forum with registration and especially with a set of rules, is something in which membership and all it entails are privileges—subject to the conditions thereof—not rights.

QUOTE
From now on I will only answer specific questions via mail
Fine, see ya! lol

This post has been edited by db1989: Jan 23 2012, 01:51
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Posts in this topic
- kraut   Jplay - just another scam? YES IT IS!   Jan 12 2012, 05:05
- - chiwou   well I installed the trial and it didn't work,...   Jan 12 2012, 06:27
|- - tpijag   QUOTE (chiwou @ Jan 11 2012, 23:27) well ...   Jan 12 2012, 16:48
|- - mudlord   QUOTE (tpijag @ Jan 12 2012, 09:48) QUOTE...   Jan 16 2012, 07:02
- - carpman   This should give you some idea of the target audie...   Jan 12 2012, 07:54
- - shakey_snake   Tweako audiophiles (the type that HA's ToS #8 ...   Jan 12 2012, 07:55
- - kraut   QUOTE unfortunately believe that anything that is ...   Jan 12 2012, 08:02
|- - shakey_snake   QUOTE (kraut @ Jan 12 2012, 02:02) QUOTE ...   Jan 12 2012, 17:11
- - hlloyge   I'm interested, how a playback engine, which i...   Jan 12 2012, 09:53
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (hlloyge @ Jan 12 2012, 03:53) I...   Jan 12 2012, 14:55
||- - hlloyge   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jan 12 2012, 15...   Jan 16 2012, 15:01
|- - vrapp   QUOTE (hlloyge @ Jan 12 2012, 09:53) I...   Jan 24 2012, 16:00
- - Carledwards   Snake oil for those whose disposable income far ex...   Jan 12 2012, 10:00
- - Porcus   QUOTE jplay pre-loads complete playlist into RAM g...   Jan 12 2012, 12:29
|- - dhromed   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jan 12 2012, 13:29) In th...   Jan 12 2012, 12:48
- - ramicio   This jitter hype is getting ridiculous. The only ...   Jan 12 2012, 14:49
- - kraut   QUOTE For its size, at 256K, compared to other pro...   Jan 16 2012, 17:31
- - JimH   Is this based on ABX testing?   Jan 17 2012, 00:39
- - godrick   Jplay looks like it may be largely vaporware based...   Jan 17 2012, 02:18
|- - mudlord   QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 16 2012, 20:18) Jpla...   Jan 17 2012, 02:49
- - godrick   I also wonder how they gained permission to use Fo...   Jan 17 2012, 06:45
|- - JimH   QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 16 2012, 23:45) I al...   Jan 18 2012, 22:01
- - Canar   That isn't even a proper foobar2000 logo. That...   Jan 18 2012, 22:24
- - godrick   Ooops! JimH, I did not mean to exclude you fr...   Jan 19 2012, 03:41
|- - mudlord   QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 18 2012, 20:41) Perh...   Jan 19 2012, 08:48
|- - JimH   QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 18 2012, 20:41) Ooop...   Jan 19 2012, 17:32
|- - josef   Hello everyone - I am the guy behind jplay, nice t...   Jan 22 2012, 17:06
|- - db1989   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 16:06) Indeed...   Jan 22 2012, 17:21
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 17:06) we cla...   Jan 22 2012, 18:47
||- - josef   Db1989 – Why such aggressive, condescending ...   Jan 22 2012, 20:06
||- - db1989   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 19:06) Db1989...   Jan 22 2012, 20:28
|||- - josef   ok - i see you really don't want to try it you...   Jan 22 2012, 21:02
||- - Porcus   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 20:06) Not su...   Jan 22 2012, 23:30
|- - mudlord   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 10:06) Plugin...   Jan 23 2012, 00:38
- - JJZolx   So how does it work, then? You use fb2k's user...   Jan 19 2012, 09:39
- - mudlord   All audio in FB2K is meant to be outputed to its o...   Jan 19 2012, 09:45
- - JJZolx   "Meant to be"?   Jan 19 2012, 09:49
- - mudlord   Yes, all audio passes from the input decoder servi...   Jan 19 2012, 09:51
- - JJZolx   I'm not endorsing anything, but I don't se...   Jan 19 2012, 09:57
|- - mudlord   QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jan 19 2012, 02:57) I...   Jan 19 2012, 09:59
|- - mudlord   QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jan 19 2012, 02:57) I...   Jan 19 2012, 10:27
- - JJZolx   There are a number of similar programs that exist ...   Jan 19 2012, 10:12
|- - godrick   QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jan 19 2012, 11:12) There...   Jan 19 2012, 15:13
- - kraut   QUOTE Or are you suggesting that hundreds of peopl...   Jan 22 2012, 21:22
|- - josef   Kraut: Sorry but you seem to be missing the point:...   Jan 22 2012, 22:35
||- - josef   Michaelw: I assure you I am not a troll am indeed ...   Jan 22 2012, 22:44
||- - bug80   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 22:44) Bug80:...   Jan 22 2012, 22:51
|- - db1989   QUOTE (kraut @ Jan 22 2012, 20:22) As [jo...   Jan 22 2012, 23:17
- - tpijag   QUOTE but now please help me i am really curious (...   Jan 22 2012, 21:50
- - bug80   Josef, you seem like a decent person. I am sure th...   Jan 22 2012, 21:57
- - kraut   QUOTE By the way, the fact that people suffer from...   Jan 22 2012, 22:09
- - MichaelW   @josef I'm not sure if you're a troll, or...   Jan 22 2012, 22:15
|- - JJZolx   QUOTE (MichaelW @ Jan 22 2012, 14:15) The...   Jan 22 2012, 22:42
|- - MichaelW   QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jan 23 2012, 10:42) QUOTE...   Jan 23 2012, 02:35
- - tpijag   QUOTE But ok, ‘measurements’: What wou...   Jan 22 2012, 22:44
- - kraut   QUOTE But ok, ‘measurements’: What would you say i...   Jan 22 2012, 22:59
- - Brand   I was just in the middle of RMAA testing my soundc...   Jan 22 2012, 23:04
- - kraut   QUOTE Looking at the actual numbers it seems like ...   Jan 22 2012, 23:12
|- - josef   Kraut: > please supply sources. Sure - here’s ...   Jan 22 2012, 23:17
||- - probedb   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 22:17) Kraut:...   Jan 22 2012, 23:31
||- - kraut   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 15:17) Kraut:...   Jan 22 2012, 23:36
|- - Brand   QUOTE (kraut @ Jan 22 2012, 23:12) QUOTE ...   Jan 22 2012, 23:34
- - Brand   I now cut the A and B samples I posted before and ...   Jan 23 2012, 00:03
|- - josef   Probedb: perhaps you missed this – I am no ...   Jan 23 2012, 00:08
|- - Ouroboros   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 23:08) and it...   Jan 23 2012, 00:17
|- - Emon   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 18:08) I am j...   Jan 23 2012, 08:33
||- - db1989   QUOTE (Emon @ Jan 23 2012, 07:33) QUOTE (...   Jan 23 2012, 13:50
|- - probedb   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 23:08) Probed...   Jan 23 2012, 09:44
- - kraut   QUOTE As you can see they cancel out pretty nicely...   Jan 23 2012, 01:00
|- - mudlord   QUOTE (kraut @ Jan 22 2012, 19:00) anyhow...   Jan 23 2012, 01:03
- - kraut   I took the graphical display of the measurements, ...   Jan 23 2012, 01:18
|- - josef   Ouroboros: perhaps you think it’s so simple but fo...   Jan 23 2012, 01:33
|- - db1989   QUOTE (josef @ Jan 23 2012, 00:33) Ourobo...   Jan 23 2012, 01:48
- - godrick   The only impact of the posts today is that instead...   Jan 23 2012, 01:33
- - Canar   Typical con-man behaviour: when confronted with ca...   Jan 23 2012, 01:59
- - Brand   QUOTE (Brand @ Jan 22 2012, 23:34) The bi...   Jan 23 2012, 02:32
- - krabapple   Harman is the most famous commercial of DBTs in th...   Jan 23 2012, 03:32
- - krabapple   Josef, I went to the Russian site you linked to. ...   Jan 23 2012, 03:36
- - bug80   It seems thar everyone missed the fact that jozef ...   Jan 23 2012, 07:25
|- - Nessuno   QUOTE (bug80 @ Jan 23 2012, 07:25) It see...   Jan 23 2012, 11:10
|- - godrick   QUOTE (Nessuno @ Jan 23 2012, 12:10) QUOT...   Jan 23 2012, 15:31
- - dhromed   Software homeopathy.   Jan 23 2012, 10:36
- - bug80   josef, you asked for specifics regarding the ABX t...   Jan 23 2012, 11:16
- - spoon   Lets just put some perspective on all this talk of...   Jan 23 2012, 12:59
- - spoon   If people are so concerned about jitter and buffer...   Jan 23 2012, 13:07
|- - JimH   QUOTE (spoon @ Jan 23 2012, 06:07) If peo...   Jan 23 2012, 18:15
|- - JJZolx   QUOTE (spoon @ Jan 23 2012, 05:07) If peo...   Jan 23 2012, 21:23
- - kraut   I see that the dbpa developer is participating. Co...   Jan 23 2012, 17:22
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (kraut @ Jan 23 2012, 17:22) I see ...   Jan 23 2012, 19:58
- - Gecko   While I wholeheartedly agree with spoon and JimH, ...   Jan 23 2012, 19:45
- - Canar   While we're busy implying unproven things like...   Jan 23 2012, 22:03
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (Canar @ Jan 23 2012, 22:03) SPDIF-...   Jan 23 2012, 22:18
|- - godrick   QUOTE (Porcus @ Jan 23 2012, 22:18) QUOTE...   Jan 24 2012, 02:22
- - MichaelW   As I understand it, the claim for Jplay, and simil...   Jan 23 2012, 22:13
- - spoon   External DACs can also employ electrical isolation...   Jan 23 2012, 22:21
- - Porcus   Godrick: We are sort of digressing now, so let me ...   Jan 24 2012, 10:44
- - Canar   Chances are pretty good that the program is going ...   Jan 24 2012, 16:05
- - Wombat   QUOTE (vrapp @ Jan 24 2012, 16:00) The id...   Jan 24 2012, 19:37
- - bug80   jozef, did you perform some testing yet? I am curi...   Jan 25 2012, 14:08
- - josef   bug80: pls check your mail   Jan 25 2012, 21:58
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