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Distortion on vinyl rips (samples included)
meurglys0
post Dec 10 2011, 01:27
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There's a specific type of distortion I notice on many vinyl rips in circulation, but I cannot point out these flaws to the rippers (for constructive criticism), because I don't know what that type of distortion is called, that is if it has a specific name and I don't know how to describe them in words.

So I have put together two samples of such distortions from two different vinyl rips. I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what this type of distoriton is called and what causes it. Thanks in advance.

Sample 1 is 13 seconds long and sample 2 is 20 seconds long. 3 mb in total. All title and id tag info are cleared from the files, so the files are anonymous.

On sample 1 the distortion becomes very apparent at the 6th second.
On sample 2 the distortion becomes very apparent at the 5th and 15th seconds.

Here's the link:
http://www.multiupload.com/KX1UT2DXV7

Regards.
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DVDdoug
post Dec 10 2011, 02:33
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I can't listen right now, because I'm at work.

Tracking distortion is probably the most common type of distortion that happens during playback. It's when the stylus doesn't follow the groove exactly. Usually, this happens during loud passages.

Or, the record could be damaged (from mistracking or excessive stylus force, or a damaged stylus, etc.). Or, the distortion could be from the master recording.

You can't really expect perfection from an analog record. biggrin.gif With analog audio sources, you're going to get a little noise, distortion, and frequency response deviation.



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db1989
post Dec 10 2011, 14:45
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Divergent discussion about file-hosting services and archival software
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kennedyb4
post Dec 10 2011, 14:56
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Dec 10 2011, 09:45) *


Are these tracks near the end of the album? The information has to be packed more densely on the tracks near the end and this is also where the tracking distortion is more noticeable.

This post has been edited by kennedyb4: Dec 10 2011, 14:58
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Fedot L
post Dec 10 2011, 18:32
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QUOTE (kennedyb4 @ Dec 10 2011, 13:56) *
Are these tracks near the end of the album? The information has to be packed more densely on the tracks near the end and this is also where the tracking distortion is more noticeable.

On the tracks near the end of the album where the information has to be packed more densely on the tracks near the end and where the distortion is more noticeable, is called, since the “78 rpm” era, “tracing distortion”:

http://ddmal.music.mcgill.ca/wiki/Distorti...cing_distortion

Tracing distortion

All gramophones and phonograph media rotate at a constant angular velocity. However, the linear speed of the record groove moving past the stylus in gramophones is not constant. This speed is dependent upon the radial distance from the record center - the greater the distance, the greater the linear speed. As a result, similar sounds will have shorter wavelengths and greater curvatures on the inner grooves. Distortion introduced under these conditions is known as tracing distortion.
===

http://www.tronola.com/html/dynagroove.html

a significant amount of distortion as the ball-shaped tip attempted to trace the path cut by the chisel-shaped cutter stylus. This is called tracing distortion.
===

http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=abo..._history_part_4

One interesting phenomenon in this connection is the tracing distortion that results from the difference in geometric shape between the tool used to cut the grooves and the playback stylus. The cutting stylus is shaped like a spade, while the playback stylus is spherical. During playback, this results in tracing distortion, which mainly contains the 2nd harmonic.
===

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-f...tion-vinyl.html

Almost all of the distortion comes from a thing called Tracing Distortion which is caused by trying to play back a groove made with a triangular cutting stylus by using a round (or rounded) playback stylus. As the groove get shaper (because of level or dimishing wavelength) you get more tracing error and more distortion.
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meurglys0
post Dec 11 2011, 00:05
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Sample 1 is the beginning of the second track on the album it comes from. The first track on the album is 3 minutes long.

Sample 2 is from the middle of the 4th song of the album it comes from, which correponds to the 15th minute or so on the album.

So can the distortion on these samples still be "tracing distortion" or does it only happen near the end of the album?

This post has been edited by db1989: Dec 11 2011, 15:42
Reason for edit: removing pointless full quote of huge preceding post
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kraut
post Dec 11 2011, 05:12
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QUOTE
Almost all of the distortion comes from a thing called Tracing Distortion which is caused by trying to play back a groove made with a triangular cutting stylus by using a round (or rounded) playback stylus. As the groove get shaper (because of level or dimishing wavelength) you get more tracing error and more distortion.



funny the attempts at explanations by the specialists here.
For fuck sakes guys, distortion can result from the wrong tracking angle, the wrong VTA, a dirty stylus, wrong rake angle, overloaded phono preamp, incorrect azimuth, etc. etc.

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...Quality_(Vinyl)
Sources of Distortion
Turntable
Turntable Level
Environmental Noise
Motor Noise
Belt/Drivetrain Wear
Record Wear
Tonearm, Cartridge and Stylus
Tracking Error
Cartridge Alignment
Tonearm Alignment
Cartridge Damage
Stylus Wear
Stylus Damage
Cartridge Distortion
Electromagnetic Interference
Mechanical Resonance
Preamp
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AndyH-ha
post Dec 11 2011, 06:48
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Distortion is music playback often seems too obvious to miss, although I've noticed that a significant portion of the population, in a wide range of venues, clearly doesn't share my distress when assaulted with such audio. I've also learned to hear a variety of different things that have become more or less "very apparent" in many places only after I've heard them sufficiently in some places. For recordings from LPs, much of this has been concentrated on aspects I can do something about.

If there is something as indicated in the two samples, to recognize it I would probably have to compare to the same thing, or something very similar, without this supposed distortion. However obvious it might be to the OP, I don't notice anything in particular at the times listed, or elsewhere, although the opening bit of sample 2 might be a bit peculiar.

I think I can assign probable causes to some of the things I recognize in many of the LP transfers I've worked on, but the exact cause of quite a few are uncertain, at best, and likely to remain so.
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Fedot L
post Dec 11 2011, 07:51
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1.
QUOTE (meurglys0 @ Dec 10 2011, 23:05) *
…can the distortion on these samples still be "tracing distortion" or does it only happen near the end of the album?

The "tracing distortion" is present when playing back any record groove, as it results from the inevitable “difference in geometric shape between the tool used to cut the grooves and the playback stylus”
http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=abo..._history_part_4

, “is caused by trying to play back a groove made with a triangular cutting stylus by using a round (or rounded) playback stylus”
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-f...tion-vinyl.html

, but it aggravates on “inner” grooves because “similar sounds will have shorter wavelengths and greater curvatures on the inner grooves”
http://ddmal.music.mcgill.ca/wiki/Distorti...cing_distortion

===

2. I’ve finally listened to your two samples through headphones and loudspeakers (with my integrated amp having <0,012% THD 20…20000 Hz measured), and I’ve heard no “flagrant” distortions. Maybe the annoying distortions you hear result from other components of your system than the TT and cartridge…
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