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FLAC on Android, Is it worth the trouble to listen to FLAC on a android phone?
Chinch
post Apr 23 2012, 14:40
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Mar 23 2012, 20:48) *
All I need is the size of this:


If that goes to an HTC phone, then I can actually contribute something useful to an otherwish cashed out discussion. Everyone hit on very valid and correct points. Now as far as that cable – most people would look at it and immediately answer that's a USB micro (male). It's actually a proprietary USB connector for HTC phones, which lemme look it up, I forgot what makes it different but I know this:

That slot that the shown cable plugs into is backwards compatible with USB Mini, as far as charging and normal data transfer are concerned. The proprietary cable only is of concern when outputting media to a TV, I believe, it's like mini HDMI sort of. Lemme get my facts straight, BRB!

QUOTE
  • HTC manufactured Windows Mobile and Android-based devices which have a proprietary connector called HTC ExtUSB (Extended USB). ExtUSB combines mini-USB (with which it is backwards-compatible) with audio input as well as audio and video output in an 11-pin connector.
  • HTC introduced devices (e.g. Flyer tablet, Droid Incredible, Amaze and Rezound Android phones) in 2010 featuring a 12-pin ExtMicro USB variant, backwards-compatible with Micro-USB.


Wow. I can't believe I actually remembered that from a while back. I've never even owned an HTC or Android! Only reason I know that those phones had proprietary connectors was a female friend of mine had this whack-ass cable that was frayed and stuff and I was gonna give her a replacement, but noticed that even though it looked exactly like a Micro USB cable, a Micro would not fit. Confused, I looked it up and found that info. Tried the "not very obvious at a glance" backwards-compatible standard Mini USB, and boom. Worked perfectly. That phone was an HTC Desire.

So first, I hope we're even talking about an HTC phone/cable… I'm halfway asleep and did not absorb the massive amount of information provided since my post yesterday evening… man. People out of the woodwork here. I hope I contributed an obscure, valuable bit of info instead of a completely useless one! Reference for those quotes: USB Proprietary Connectors (Wikipedia link)

Here is a close-up high res shot of the newer version (female/port, the one backwards-compatible with Micro USB):
Detailed view of HTC ExtMicro USB port on an HTC Amaze (Ruby) Android phone, illustrating the additional 7 pins recessed further back in the port. See below for a view of the connector which utilizes these extra pins.

And the one referenced in that description, high res (male/external connector):
Detailed view of HTC ExtMicro USB male plug of an HTC MHL-HDMI adapter (AC-M500). Illustrates additional 7 pins not existing in conventional MicroUSB. This view clearly shows the additional 7 pins that HTC incorporates into this 12-pin connector, which reach below and behind (further into the port) the conventional 5-pin Micro-USB connection (not seen in this view).


Hope that info helps here; but also if any moderators know of an area where this specific info might be of value to the readers there, could you either repost or cross-post or whatever way you guys would get this info over there. Please let me know if you do copy/move the information if you would, for my own reference. Thanks!
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Chinch
post Apr 23 2012, 14:54
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I was also going to note, while we're talking about FLAC files and playing them here and there and compatibility, I know this is surely in the FAQ's/board docs somewhere, but just a short, quick reminder that if you want/need FLAC support outside of something like foobar2000 which natively handles it... say other Windows players… for the DirectShow codecs and other specific things (if you want to play OGG files in Quicktime, or if you want to play them in WMP, etc) – read this page very well (and the documentation page while you're there) – this should have all the open source libraries and codecs you need to work with FLAC/VORBIS files system-wide: Xiph.org - Downloads

Also, for a good education about the many different forms of Vorbis based codecs like SPEEX, THEORA and similar "siblings", just hit this link or just scroll to the very bottom of the main home page for a nice summary of all their codecs, technologies and utilities/downloads/tools: Xiph.org - Resources by Project

Nuh uh… wait up before you leave, don't overlook what I said about reading the documention: Xiph.org - Documentation

Hope that helps, too.
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saratoga
post Apr 23 2012, 15:19
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QUOTE (stephan_g @ Apr 5 2012, 12:35) *
On a basic player with a small power budget like a rockboxed Clip+, FLAC playback seems to be dragging down battery life from about 12 hours with a µSD card inserted to about 7..8 hours, apparently due to more frequent storage access only (decoding itself has been shown to be extremely easy on the processor, faster than any lossy codec).


No, those figures you're citing are probably for the Sandisk firmware. If you use FLAC, its battery life is about 7-8 hours, because its decoder is very slow. In rockbox, we use an optimized decoder, and so battery life is better then MP3 (about 17-18 hours).
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gentillyjoe
post Sep 23 2013, 10:10
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QUOTE (Roseval @ Jan 29 2012, 19:53) *
Would be great to connect the phone to a USB DAC but as far as I know there is no support for USB audio in Android.


What about sending the digital audio signal through the Android device's HDMI port? I need to do that because the USB port will be used to connect to a wired network (I avoid using WiFi). But it seems audio-only (like music files) can't be sent via the HDMI port. Is there a way to configure it?

TIA
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gentillyjoe
post Sep 23 2013, 10:22
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QUOTE (Bad Monkey @ Apr 23 2012, 12:40) *
Some tablets and even phones have HDMI outs.

Using an Android tablet connected via ethernet to a HDD for storage seems to me an obvious solution that can replace the PC in the home theater or hifi set-up.


This is exactly what I want to do - replace my Squeezebox Touch with a tablet and connect to the NAS via the USB port. But I would need a way to get the digital audio signal to my DAC, and that would have to be via the HDMI port, unless the digital signal can be routed through the headphone jack. Any help with how to do either would be most appreciated.

PS I responded to another post in this thread before I saw yours. My apologies to all. But responses to either one would be appreciated ;O)
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Mach-X
post Sep 24 2013, 05:25
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The simple answer to the OP's question is "what level of lossy encoding can you ABX". Encoding is not exactly an excruciating task, in fact right click -> convert in foobar and then 20 minutes later it's done. For me, my pc encodes MUCH faster than it copies to sd, so it's an easy answer for me. Copying 40, 60, 80 or more gigs of flac files to super slow sd? Forget it. Give me 10% file size thanks.
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ktf
post Sep 24 2013, 17:39
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While I know this discussion is old, I just thought of an advantage of putting FLAC at your phone/in your car/any place noisy: you have an extra copy. While you won't notice the difference listening, it is another backup copy in case a harddisk crashes and you're likely to keep checking for corruption and updating that backup, something you might forget on regular backup copies.


--------------------
Music: sounds arranged such that they construct feelings.
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BECHA
post Oct 5 2013, 23:24
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QUOTE (ktf @ Sep 24 2013, 17:39) *
While I know this discussion is old, I just thought of an advantage of putting FLAC at your phone/in your car/any place noisy: you have an extra copy. While you won't notice the difference listening, it is another backup copy in case a harddisk crashes and you're likely to keep checking for corruption and updating that backup, something you might forget on regular backup copies.

It isn't only concern to have extra copy, it is more concern to have only one copy. For example majority of my FLAC are in 24/192 format occupied approximately 1.8Gb space. I do not have any resampled copy of it, and I use same copy to play on computer, Raspberry Pi and Android phone. I know phone application (Kamerton in my case) does resampling on fly, however even in this case I still can hear difference between 24/96 and 24/192 sampling rates. I also contacted an author of player about possibility to play directly to USB DAC (unfortunately Android audio flenger mixes down everything to 16/44.1) and I was assured that the feature will be available soon. However it isn't critical for me, since you are absolutely right, usual situations of using Android as music player it is car, where hard to achieve ideal listening environment. Interesting fact that I was a big fun of classic iPod players, and was wondering why Apple frozen the line. And now I have complete explanation. Android phone with Bluetooth streaming and possibility to play 24/192 is more convenient. Other reason, when you use iPod you generally restricted to iPod embedded music player and iTunes(although I never used iTunes), but Android gives around 20 different music players and you can find one which will be more suitable for your music listening habits (I selected Kamerton since prefer simple directory organization of storing music).
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BECHA
post Oct 5 2013, 23:30
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QUOTE (bsiffredi @ Nov 7 2011, 16:24) *
Hello, everyone

I'm new here, so I'd like to first congratulate everyone that participates in these discussions, because I think it's important stuff.

So, here's the topic:

I have bought my first smartphone recently, it's a Samsung Galaxy Ace running Android 2.3.4 (I guess they call it Gingerbread). I want to use it as a music player, so I'm trying out different players available, like WinAmp and PowerAmp. Until now, I was able to play FLAC files only using PowerAmp.

My question is:

Is Android capable of playing FLAC with real sound accuracy and quality, or is the accuracy and quality in some way reduced through the process of playing it? Have there been any tests to assert this?

FLAC playback was added to newer version of Android OS as 3 and 4. Version 4 supports FLAC up to 16/192 sample rates, however here is no dithering, so more likely you need to stick with some music player for smoother playback. If you switch to newer Android you can also utilize USB on go when you can connect external USB DAC and enjoy music without any quality loss. However you will still need an application supporting playback through USB. I have a decent USB DAC but still can't afford decent Android phone to use it. Since my USB DAC is quite big device it doesn't make much sense use it with Android phone. Your situation can be different.
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rick.hughes
post Oct 6 2013, 12:54
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QUOTE (BECHA @ Oct 5 2013, 18:24) *
...majority of my FLAC are in 24/192 format occupied approximately 1.8Gb space...
...I still can hear difference between 24/96 and 24/192 sampling rates...

How many songs at 24/192 can you fit in only 1.8GB?
Something must be broken if you can really hear a difference since even 16/44.1 is better than human hearing.
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db1989
post Oct 6 2013, 15:28
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Yeah, we’re going to need double-blind evidence and/or a technical explanation about severe limitations in the mentioned software, or the claim about an audible difference is going in the Bin with all the others.
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saratoga
post Oct 7 2013, 04:08
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QUOTE (BECHA @ Oct 5 2013, 18:30) *
FLAC playback was added to newer version of Android OS as 3 and 4. Version 4 supports FLAC up to 16/192 sample rates, however here is no dithering, so more likely you need to stick with some music player for smoother playback.


Dithering on playback with a portable device is essentially pointless.
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SLORider
post Dec 11 2013, 09:56
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QUOTE (rick.hughes @ Oct 6 2013, 03:54) *
Something must be broken if you can really hear a difference since even 16/44.1 is better than human hearing.


Hardly! The human ear can EASILY discern transients that even a 192 KHz sampling rate cannot reproduce. The 30-year old CD 16/44.1 leaves MUCH to be desired---at least for real audiophiles. If you prefer McDonald's over foie gras and wine, then stick to crappy MP3. I can't believe I have to post this on an audio enthusiast forum.

This post has been edited by SLORider: Dec 11 2013, 09:57
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julf
post Dec 11 2013, 11:17
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QUOTE (SLORider @ Dec 11 2013, 09:56) *
Hardly! The human ear can EASILY discern transients that even a 192 KHz sampling rate cannot reproduce. The 30-year old CD 16/44.1 leaves MUCH to be desired---at least for real audiophiles. If you prefer McDonald's over foie gras and wine, then stick to crappy MP3. I can't believe I have to post this on an audio enthusiast forum.


Did you read the terms of service you agreed to when you joined?

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probedb
post Dec 11 2013, 11:28
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QUOTE (SLORider @ Dec 11 2013, 08:56) *
Hardly! The human ear can EASILY discern transients that even a 192 KHz sampling rate cannot reproduce. The 30-year old CD 16/44.1 leaves MUCH to be desired---at least for real audiophiles. If you prefer McDonald's over foie gras and wine, then stick to crappy MP3. I can't believe I have to post this on an audio enthusiast forum.


Troll, troll, troll, troll.....sung along to the old Skol Lager advert theme tune.
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probedb
post Dec 11 2013, 11:30
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It looks like Anandtech are trying to do some proper testing now.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7567/smartph...quality-testing
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