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What's the point of higher sampling rates in audio?, Such as 96 and 192kHz.
stranhoROX
post Oct 16 2011, 18:03
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Could someone explain to me why there are some recordings with sample rates as high as 192kHz? If most of us hear up to 20kHz, wouldn't 44.1kHz or even 48kHz be enough? Or is there other practical aspects besides boosting maximum frequency in higher sampling rates I am not aware of?
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Cavaille
post Oct 18 2011, 13:34
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Guys, you all disappoint me. The point of higher sampling rates is capturing at best quality possible, regardless if the quality improvement to 16/44.1 is only theoretical. The point is: you can always dowsample later. Really, all your shiny, biting and ironic arguments would have made sense ten years ago but in present times itīs completely superfluous: nowadays we have plenty of HDD space, more than capable hardware, fast processing (even 32/384.000 can be edited and processed very fast if I may be allowed to indulge in that exaggeration fantasy) and extremely fast internet connections. It just doesnīt make sense to use 16/44.1 or lossy compression nowadays and even less sense to promote it as the only format worthwile.

Did it occur to you that for example the Grammy foundation and the Deutsche Grammophon are doing backups of their precious analogue tapes with 24/192 before the tapes degrade and are lost? They are doing this because for example the IASA recommends it. They also donīt care if the quality is better or not, they just want to capture everything. They apparently do it according to the motto 'Better safe than sorry'. Are you calling them stupid or deluded? They obviously know the times they are in and behave accordingly, they exploit the technical possibilities they have and donīt stand still. Which is what has been missing here since a few years now. You guys are still doing comparisons of lossy formats at 96 kBit/s! Why? The world wonīt need them for much longer. Furthermore, you make fun of people who donīt share your opinion. Granted, some of them deserve it. But for a few years now everyone who promotes something like higher samplerates, 24 bit, hell, anything else that deviates from established norms is treated like a little dumb child. You have become close minded people, living in their own secluded world that is becoming smaller and smaller every day.

This forum clearly has lost its edge, I really feel that the world has turned - but without you.

I will no longer participate here (youīll applaud it, Iīm sure) and I know that sentences will be put out of context. If there would be a delete-button for my profile Iīd use it.


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C.R.Helmrich
post Oct 18 2011, 22:42
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QUOTE (Cavaille @ Oct 18 2011, 14:34) *
It just doesnīt make sense to use 16/44.1 or lossy compression nowadays and even less sense to promote it as the only format worthwile.
... You guys are still doing comparisons of lossy formats at 96 kBit/s! Why? The world wonīt need them for much longer. Furthermore, you make fun of people who donīt share your opinion.

I completely agree with you on the fun-making part. Such people don't contribute anything but rather deteriorate a forum's reputation. But I strongly disagree with you on the rest.

Digital archiving of historical recordings is a completely separate issue, where data rate doesn't matter. So yes, if the analog tape creates distortion up to 48 kHz, digitize at 96 kHz, why not? But why at 24 or 32 bits? You won't capture any more information than with 16 (or 14) bits per sample. And, luckily, at HA many know a thing or two about information theory which most of the world's population doesn't.

Sorry to disappoint you, but already nowadays you hear more compressed than lossless audio in your daily life. Digital TV, radio, phone, basically every animation or stream on the Internet use it. Give me an application other than physical media (CD, Blu-Ray, etc.) and private FLAC/ALAC collections where lossless audio is being distributed/used by more than a tiny minority. That's why we test things like 96 kbps: to see how low you can go with lossy compression and still achieve excellent (but of course not transparent) quality, and to make other people aware of our findings. It's a hard truth, but I think we are reaching a point where lossless audio is becoming unimportant. The industry is e.g. pushing digital radio to channel bit-rates far below 100 kbps stereo! Which is ridiculous if you ask me, but that's how it is. So there are much more important things to worry about than whether to use 48 kHz or higher sampling rates.

Edit: Thought about it some more... Of course nowadays we would also want to archive e.g. some contemporary amateur cell-phone videos with "historical value". Isn't it more important to get the crappy cell-phone video and sound right in the next phone generation than to be able to preserve it in 24/96?

My 0.02 Euro.

Chris

This post has been edited by C.R.Helmrich: Oct 18 2011, 23:08


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Posts in this topic
- stranhoROX   What's the point of higher sampling rates in audio?   Oct 16 2011, 18:03
- - C.R.Helmrich   Good question! My answer: People record with 9...   Oct 16 2011, 18:18
|- - punkrockdude   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Oct 16 2011, 19:18)...   Oct 18 2011, 21:13
- - Brand   Yeah, this has been discussed a lot on HA. But in...   Oct 16 2011, 18:29
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Brand @ Oct 16 2011, 13:29) Howeve...   Oct 16 2011, 21:32
- - benski   There are some advantages to recording, mixing and...   Oct 16 2011, 20:38
- - Canar   Trivial case where higher-sampling rates can becom...   Oct 16 2011, 21:50
|- - Notat   +1 to saratoga Canar's scenario is applicable...   Oct 16 2011, 22:48
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Notat @ Oct 16 2011, 17:48) There ...   Oct 17 2011, 03:57
- - Juha   Still there are plenty of audiointerfaces which wo...   Oct 17 2011, 04:14
- - 2Bdecided   @benski, ...but if you're simply relying on t...   Oct 17 2011, 10:07
|- - benski   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 17 2011, 05:07) @b...   Oct 17 2011, 11:47
|- - Northpack   QUOTE (benski @ Oct 17 2011, 10:47) And i...   Oct 17 2011, 16:34
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Northpack @ Oct 17 2011, 16:34) QU...   Oct 18 2011, 11:26
||- - Dirk95100   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 18 2011, 12:26) An...   Oct 18 2011, 12:33
|||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Dirk95100 @ Oct 18 2011, 12:33) QU...   Oct 18 2011, 14:46
|||- - Dirk95100   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 18 2011, 15:46) QU...   Oct 19 2011, 05:35
||||- - saratoga   QUOTE (Dirk95100 @ Oct 19 2011, 00:35) ht...   Oct 19 2011, 05:51
|||||- - Dirk95100   QUOTE (saratoga @ Oct 19 2011, 06:51) QUO...   Oct 19 2011, 08:42
|||||- - SebastianG   QUOTE (Dirk95100 @ Oct 19 2011, 09:42) An...   Oct 19 2011, 09:38
||||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Dirk95100 @ Oct 19 2011, 05:35) ht...   Oct 19 2011, 11:01
||||- - Dirk95100   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 19 2011, 12:01) QU...   Oct 19 2011, 12:50
||||- - SebastianG   QUOTE (Dirk95100 @ Oct 19 2011, 13:50) Wh...   Oct 19 2011, 13:52
||||- - pdq   QUOTE (Dirk95100 @ Oct 19 2011, 07:50) Wh...   Oct 19 2011, 14:00
|||- - Woodinville   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 18 2011, 06:46) 1)...   Oct 19 2011, 07:45
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 18 2011, 06:26) Th...   Oct 18 2011, 23:10
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (krabapple @ Oct 18 2011, 23:10) QU...   Oct 19 2011, 10:50
|- - dhromed   QUOTE (benski @ Oct 17 2011, 12:47) And i...   Oct 17 2011, 17:05
|- - knutinh   QUOTE (benski @ Oct 17 2011, 12:47) I...   Oct 17 2011, 18:34
|- - Dirk95100   QUOTE (knutinh @ Oct 17 2011, 19:34) QUOT...   Oct 18 2011, 05:06
- - Wombat   QUOTE (dhromed @ Oct 17 2011, 18:05) QUOT...   Oct 17 2011, 18:45
- - HTS   Do microphones have to be good enough to take adva...   Oct 18 2011, 03:45
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (HTS @ Oct 17 2011, 22:45) Otherwis...   Oct 18 2011, 03:47
- - FreaqyFrequency   There are, in fact, at least two omni capsules out...   Oct 18 2011, 04:12
- - hellokeith   Seems like a worthwhile experiment would be to run...   Oct 18 2011, 07:14
- - unekdoud   QUOTE (stranhoROX @ Oct 17 2011, 01:03) C...   Oct 18 2011, 08:01
- - Cavaille   Guys, you all disappoint me. The point of higher s...   Oct 18 2011, 13:34
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Oct 18 2011, 13:34) Guy...   Oct 18 2011, 14:55
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Oct 18 2011, 08:34) Guy...   Oct 18 2011, 17:41
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Oct 18 2011, 14:34) It ...   Oct 18 2011, 22:42
||- - hellokeith   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Oct 18 2011, 16:42)...   Oct 19 2011, 05:30
||- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (hellokeith @ Oct 19 2011, 06:30) Q...   Oct 19 2011, 15:50
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Oct 18 2011, 08:34) Guy...   Oct 18 2011, 23:26
|- - Slipstreem   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Oct 18 2011, 12:34) Thi...   Nov 8 2011, 02:01
- - Wombat   I love the steps forward high resolution movies co...   Oct 18 2011, 19:48
- - [JAZ]   And are you 100% sure that the plugin is samplerat...   Oct 18 2011, 22:09
|- - punkrockdude   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Oct 18 2011, 23:09...   Nov 1 2011, 16:55
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Oct 18 2011, 17:09...   Nov 1 2011, 21:44
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 1 2011, 21...   Nov 2 2011, 12:32
||- - benski   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 2 2011, 07:32) A s...   Nov 2 2011, 15:40
|- - HTS   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 1 2011, 15...   Mar 20 2012, 03:35
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (HTS @ Mar 19 2012, 19:35) Aren...   Apr 7 2012, 05:41
|- - knutinh   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Apr 7 2012, 06:41) H...   Apr 9 2012, 12:20
- - Juha   I bet most of these 16/44.1 fanatics rips/ripped t...   Oct 19 2011, 04:33
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Juha @ Oct 18 2011, 23:33) I bet m...   Nov 15 2011, 17:29
|- - mjb2006   QUOTE (krabapple @ Nov 15 2011, 10:29) [2...   Nov 15 2011, 22:12
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (mjb2006 @ Nov 15 2011, 17:12) QUOT...   Nov 15 2011, 22:45
- - greynol   It has little to do with editing. People record a...   Oct 19 2011, 16:34
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 19 2011, 11:34) It h...   Nov 1 2011, 15:08
- - greynol   That's great, Arny, though I don't know th...   Nov 1 2011, 16:48
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 1 2011, 11:48) That...   Nov 1 2011, 21:27
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 1 2011, 13...   Nov 1 2011, 22:16
- - 2Bdecided   Yes, I agree. Sorry, that's what I was implyin...   Nov 2 2011, 16:18
- - astroidmist   I don't know if this has been posted or addres...   Nov 7 2011, 07:00
- - Roseval   Nyquist in reverse One should sample at the doubl...   Nov 8 2011, 00:01
- - Wombat   QUOTE (Roseval @ Nov 8 2011, 01:01) One s...   Nov 8 2011, 02:14
- - pappaapa   Question: Shouldn't the rest of the worlds ac...   Nov 8 2011, 15:38
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (pappaapa @ Nov 8 2011, 15:38) To m...   Nov 8 2011, 18:00
||- - pappaapa   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 8 2011, 18:00) Any...   Nov 9 2011, 00:10
||- - Soap   QUOTE (pappaapa @ Nov 8 2011, 19:10) But ...   Nov 9 2011, 00:48
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (pappaapa @ Nov 9 2011, 00:10) But ...   Nov 16 2011, 13:38
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (pappaapa @ Nov 8 2011, 10:38) Ques...   Nov 8 2011, 18:04
- - Wombat   QUOTE (pappaapa @ Nov 8 2011, 16:38) Ques...   Nov 8 2011, 15:55
- - Wombat   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 8 2011, 19:00) Far...   Nov 8 2011, 19:31
- - pappaapa   First: Thanks for your replies! And just to t...   Nov 8 2011, 21:20
|- - drewfx   QUOTE (pappaapa @ Nov 8 2011, 15:20) Firs...   Nov 8 2011, 22:42
||- - pappaapa   QUOTE (drewfx @ Nov 8 2011, 22:42) My und...   Nov 8 2011, 23:50
||- - drewfx   QUOTE (pappaapa @ Nov 8 2011, 17:50) QUOT...   Nov 9 2011, 03:58
|- - Soap   QUOTE (pappaapa @ Nov 8 2011, 16:20) So u...   Nov 8 2011, 23:24
- - Roseval   Having digitized some vinyl I know for sure I won’...   Nov 15 2011, 22:49


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