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What's the point of higher sampling rates in audio?, Such as 96 and 192kHz.
stranhoROX
post Oct 16 2011, 18:03
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Could someone explain to me why there are some recordings with sample rates as high as 192kHz? If most of us hear up to 20kHz, wouldn't 44.1kHz or even 48kHz be enough? Or is there other practical aspects besides boosting maximum frequency in higher sampling rates I am not aware of?
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[JAZ]
post Oct 18 2011, 22:09
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And are you 100% sure that the plugin is samplerate aware???

I've been part of this past year fixing most of the plugins of my program* so that they don't perform differently at different sample rates. There's no plausible reason why a compressor would act that much different at different sampling rates. The slope should increase accordingly.
(Of course, by the nature of a compressor, a higher samplerate allows to control better the envelope, but we're talking about a couple of samples better, not something that could clearly be heard).



* http://sourceforge.net/projects/psycle . I'm doing the last tests and adjustments for a new official release. (Should have already released it this weekend).
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Nov 1 2011, 21:44
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QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Oct 18 2011, 17:09) *

And are you 100% sure that the plugin is samplerate aware???

I've been part of this past year fixing most of the plugins of my program* so that they don't perform differently at different sample rates.


If nonlinear processing is done in the digital domain, certain high harmonics can reflect back down into the audible range. Any signal that is generated in the digital domain above the Nyquist frequency aliases around the Nyquist frequency. For example, an 8 KHz tone in a 44.1 KHz sampled sytem is distorted by a fourth order digitally-implemented nonlinearity and would be expected to produce a fourth harmonic at 32 KHz. Since 32 KHz is 10 Khz higher than the 44.1 KHz Nyquist frequency of 22 KHz, the 4th harmonic is aliased down to 12 KHz where it is far more audible than it would be in a digital system with a much higher sample rate or an analog system. In a 96 KHz system, the same nonlinearity would produce a foruth harmonic at 32 KHz where it would not be audible.

Aliasing can also impact certain dynamic range compression or expansion algorithms that are based on nonlinarities implemented in the digital domain.

Most kinds of processing that are used in music synthesis and mixing are linear, so aliasing is not a common problem.

This post has been edited by Arnold B. Krueger: Nov 1 2011, 21:58
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HTS
post Mar 20 2012, 03:35
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QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 1 2011, 15:44) *
QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Oct 18 2011, 17:09) *

And are you 100% sure that the plugin is samplerate aware???

I've been part of this past year fixing most of the plugins of my program* so that they don't perform differently at different sample rates.


If nonlinear processing is done in the digital domain, certain high harmonics can reflect back down into the audible range. Any signal that is generated in the digital domain above the Nyquist frequency aliases around the Nyquist frequency. For example, an 8 KHz tone in a 44.1 KHz sampled sytem is distorted by a fourth order digitally-implemented nonlinearity and would be expected to produce a fourth harmonic at 32 KHz. Since 32 KHz is 10 Khz higher than the 44.1 KHz Nyquist frequency of 22 KHz, the 4th harmonic is aliased down to 12 KHz where it is far more audible than it would be in a digital system with a much higher sample rate or an analog system. In a 96 KHz system, the same nonlinearity would produce a foruth harmonic at 32 KHz where it would not be audible.

Aliasing can also impact certain dynamic range compression or expansion algorithms that are based on nonlinarities implemented in the digital domain.

Most kinds of processing that are used in music synthesis and mixing are linear, so aliasing is not a common problem.


Aren't algorithmic reverbs based on non-linear transformations? Especially these days they offer many types of adjustments to the parameters for effects.
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Woodinville
post Apr 7 2012, 05:41
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QUOTE (HTS @ Mar 19 2012, 19:35) *
Aren't algorithmic reverbs based on non-linear transformations? Especially these days they offer many types of adjustments to the parameters for effects.


How so? huge IIR filters are not nonlinear.


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J. D. (jj) Johnston
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knutinh
post Apr 9 2012, 12:20
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QUOTE (Woodinville @ Apr 7 2012, 06:41) *
How so? huge IIR filters are not nonlinear.

I was under the impression that standard reverb algorithms introduced time-variant "stuff" in the filter topology to reduce audible artifacts, making them non-LTI?

Nevertheless, I assume that the kind of nonlinearities "warned" about by Arnold in terms of aliasing was of a very different kind: Signal-dependent gain with non-smooth envelope.

-k

This post has been edited by knutinh: Apr 9 2012, 12:22
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Posts in this topic
- stranhoROX   What's the point of higher sampling rates in audio?   Oct 16 2011, 18:03
- - C.R.Helmrich   Good question! My answer: People record with 9...   Oct 16 2011, 18:18
|- - punkrockdude   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Oct 16 2011, 19:18)...   Oct 18 2011, 21:13
- - Brand   Yeah, this has been discussed a lot on HA. But in...   Oct 16 2011, 18:29
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Brand @ Oct 16 2011, 13:29) Howeve...   Oct 16 2011, 21:32
- - benski   There are some advantages to recording, mixing and...   Oct 16 2011, 20:38
- - Canar   Trivial case where higher-sampling rates can becom...   Oct 16 2011, 21:50
|- - Notat   +1 to saratoga Canar's scenario is applicable...   Oct 16 2011, 22:48
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (Notat @ Oct 16 2011, 17:48) There ...   Oct 17 2011, 03:57
- - Juha   Still there are plenty of audiointerfaces which wo...   Oct 17 2011, 04:14
- - 2Bdecided   @benski, ...but if you're simply relying on t...   Oct 17 2011, 10:07
|- - benski   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 17 2011, 05:07) @b...   Oct 17 2011, 11:47
|- - Northpack   QUOTE (benski @ Oct 17 2011, 10:47) And i...   Oct 17 2011, 16:34
||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Northpack @ Oct 17 2011, 16:34) QU...   Oct 18 2011, 11:26
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|||- - Dirk95100   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 18 2011, 15:46) QU...   Oct 19 2011, 05:35
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||- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (krabapple @ Oct 18 2011, 23:10) QU...   Oct 19 2011, 10:50
|- - dhromed   QUOTE (benski @ Oct 17 2011, 12:47) And i...   Oct 17 2011, 17:05
|- - knutinh   QUOTE (benski @ Oct 17 2011, 12:47) I...   Oct 17 2011, 18:34
|- - Dirk95100   QUOTE (knutinh @ Oct 17 2011, 19:34) QUOT...   Oct 18 2011, 05:06
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|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Oct 18 2011, 13:34) Guy...   Oct 18 2011, 14:55
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Oct 18 2011, 08:34) Guy...   Oct 18 2011, 17:41
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- - [JAZ]   And are you 100% sure that the plugin is samplerat...   Oct 18 2011, 22:09
|- - punkrockdude   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Oct 18 2011, 23:09...   Nov 1 2011, 16:55
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Oct 18 2011, 17:09...   Nov 1 2011, 21:44
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 1 2011, 21...   Nov 2 2011, 12:32
||- - benski   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 2 2011, 07:32) A s...   Nov 2 2011, 15:40
|- - HTS   QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 1 2011, 15...   Mar 20 2012, 03:35
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