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Can HTOA info be stored in per-track rip so foo_verifier finds the CD?, Was “Pregap info foo_verifier”/official plugin so moved from 3rd Party
BrassDude
post Oct 3 2011, 17:45
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Sometimes when I rip CDs to FLAC with foobar I get a certain confidence, say 7, that my rip is accurate. I usually rip the CDs into individual files for each track. When I then run the foo_verifier tool it says "No such disc found in the AccurateRip database. Please make sure you have selected a complete disc rip with correct track order. If the disc contains hidden tracks, you can only verify it through a matching cuesheet with hidden track information intact." So it must be that the CD had a pregap (or HTOA), right?

Is there a way I can tell foobar2000 to store the pregap for track 1? Because, if I correctly understood AccurateRip, for the calculation of the CD ID the pregap information is needed (hence the disc is not correctly identified if checked again by foo_verifier). But for the calculation fo the checksum for AccurateRip the data in the pregap of track 1 is not taken into account, right?
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kode54
post Oct 3 2011, 19:53
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The pregap or index 0 of track 1, depending on the index, is only stored by complete disc image rips. There is no way to store this information in single track files, other than some specialized tags which are unlikely to be supported by any other player.
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marc2003
post Oct 3 2011, 20:07
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just tag your files as you rip them and then you won't have to bother verifying them again in the future. i use the comment tag because i don't use it for anything else. or you could create your own tags.

edit: cuetools can verify albums without pre-gap info. it simply guesses what the pre-gap is likely to be from the most common ones in use. if it doesn't find it, you can script your own or simply enter it manually.

This post has been edited by marc2003: Oct 3 2011, 20:08
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BrassDude
post Oct 4 2011, 17:39
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Ok - thanks for the info. So either ripping to a single flac file with f2k and then having all the necessary pregap info stored in the embedded cue sheet and being able to verify it again with foo_verifier or ripping to individual track flac files (without the pregap info) and not having the possibility to verify it agian (of course only if the CD had a pregap).

Marc2003: are you storing the pregap info for track 1 by hand in the comment field? Do you rip with f2k? How does f2k tell you the pregap? Or are you using a different ripper like EAC or CUERipper that can tell you the pregap?

I tried to fiddle around a bit by setting up a embedded cue sheet for track 1 with the pregap I got from CUETools but that didn't work. But I could verify it with CUETools once I've specified the pregap by hand. How can I enable the automatic pregap guessing in CUETools you've mentioned Marc2003?
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marc2003
post Oct 4 2011, 19:11
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i'm not storing pre-gap info because i never intend to burn my rips back to cd. i'm simply storing whether each track is accurate or not. i recently verified my whole collection and when i got to albums where the disk isn't recognised, i simply popped it into my drive and used EAC to see what the pre-gap was. it displays the start point so you don't have to do anything. i then verify, tagged and forget about it. i use title formatting in my playlist scripts so i can see whether a rip is accurate or not. pointless but i like it. tongue.gif

if you want to burn back to CD, you'll have to rip with something that creates cue sheets with that info. storing pre-gap info into tags would be pointless because as kode54 mentioned, no other software would use it.

as for cue tools, here's the script...

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....mp;#entry707559

if you want to add more values, change the value of where it says UINT - the number in square brackets must match the number of values separated by commas. it took me awhile to figure out that for a pregap of 2 seconds, you need to use a value of 150. check the thread if you need more help with it.

This post has been edited by marc2003: Oct 4 2011, 19:13
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BrassDude
post Dec 22 2011, 08:16
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I really would like to have the possiblilty to be able to check all my CD rips some time later. Hence, my procedure is now as follwing: rip a CD and then immediately check if I can re-verify with the foo_verifier. If the rip verified initially with AccurateRip but not when I re-verify, then this is likely due to a pregap. Then, I detect the pregap with CUETools and write it in a tag called <PREGAP> of the first track. This way I can re-verify at least with CUETools and I don't loose any information about the pregap/TOC.

Here now my suggestion: Couldn't foobar2000 do all that for me automatically? When foobar2000 rips and there is a pregap it could write it automatically to a <PREGAP> tag which could then also be used by foo_verifier. I think that should be relatively easy doable/implementable (maybe as an option that could be switched off by people who don't like it).

I know there is not a community wide standard about this but we could define a standard now (at least for foobar2000) and this seems to be a pretty simple and elegant solution to me. What do people think? I think that would be a great feature (i.e. nice Xmas present smile.gif )!
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kode54
post Dec 22 2011, 19:28
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You don't lose the pregap if you rip to a single file lossless, which uses an embedded cue sheet. In fact, the pregap will be ripped to the file as well, which is what makes it possible to verify it later. The pregap is captured as index 0/1 information for the first track, which means the audio data for the pregap is included in the lossless encode. The use of a PREGAP entry in the cue sheet means that the audio data for the zero index is not present in the encode, and is assumed to be purely silence.

Note that there is currently no way to extract just the track 1 zero index region, or even play it, at this time. It is still preserved, and may be converted to other lossless formats if you convert the entire album at once to another single file encode.
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BrassDude
post Jan 2 2012, 23:31
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Thanks kode54! I think it's probably best if I switch to single flac file rips with embedded cuesheets. I initially opted for multiple flac file rips because of backup reasons: I often retag files after I rip them to make my library more consistent (e.g. add opus numbers to symphonies, correct spelling errors of names etc.) When I do a backup later then only one file or so needs to be backed up instead of the whole CD rip as a single file. But after some thinking I think it's best to do single flac file rips as they preserve all the information that is on the CD.
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Porcus
post Jan 7 2012, 22:51
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Feature suggestion: Store the HTOA as track 0, like dBpoweramp does. Seems like a good solution for all purposes except for adding the entire folder to a music player or some other application.

(And dBpoweramp gives it the title «Hidden First Track (ability to rip depends on CD drive)» in order to warn that certain drives simply return zeroes.)


--------------------
One day in the Year of the Fox came a time remembered well
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BrassDude
post Jan 15 2012, 06:44
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Porcus, that seems a great idea to me. So far if one wants to play the HTOA part, one has to manually edit the cue sheet and change e.g. INDEX 01 03:25:63 to INDEX 01 00:00:00 if you wanna listen to the first (hidden) 3:25 minutes in this example. Maybe an extension that would list HTOA data as track 0 if the length is above a certain adjustable criterion. Since you may don't wanna have a track 0 listed for just 33 frames (e.g. 00:00:33 is a typical pregap in old CDs).
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lipidicman
post Feb 12 2012, 14:37
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QUOTE (BrassDude @ Dec 22 2011, 08:16) *
Then, I detect the pregap with CUETools

How do I do this? I don't have a cuesheet.
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BrassDude
post Feb 19 2012, 11:25
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QUOTE (lipidicman @ Feb 12 2012, 08:37) *
QUOTE (BrassDude @ Dec 22 2011, 08:16) *
Then, I detect the pregap with CUETools

How do I do this? I don't have a cuesheet.


I did this with CUERipper - sorry not CUETools - by just reading in the disc. But I now completely switched to rip to single flac files so that I have the full copy (including HTOA) of the CD for my archive.
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