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AudioSAFE, New online backup concept
Garf
post Aug 27 2011, 17:53
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I was one of the people with mp4 music tracks that ended up filling my non-audio storage. This is fixed now, but is there some way to clean out this storage? I now get errors that my non-audio storage is full even for tiny .log files.
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spoon
post Aug 28 2011, 10:22
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If you create a new account (PM to tell you how to do so), then it will do as you request, the old account will automatically self remove after 6 months of not being used.


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smok3
post Aug 28 2011, 14:21
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some silly questions:
a. so this is windows only right now? is it possible to cron the client to run from say 00 - 2.00 am only?
a.2 if yes, will there be an osx client?
a.3 if yes, will there be a linux client? (for example guiless ubuntu server which can take some time to sync the audio part of the files when it feels like)
b. how happy would you be with the pro users? (no duplicates there i guess. unless you can process parts of the OMF files), flac, OMF, large mp3 files to be supported? (there will be dupes on projects that use temp tracks and music, but that is not something to be restored)
c. restoration is possible on a file by file basis?
c.2 restoration is possible on a file by file basis, based on low quality proxy prelistening of the content (i want a baby-ogg first for free smile.gif)?

This post has been edited by smok3: Aug 28 2011, 14:45


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birdie
post Aug 28 2011, 15:30
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AudioSafe runs perfectly under Wine (in Linux).
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spoon
post Aug 28 2011, 21:43
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>a. so this is windows only right now? is it possible to cron the client to run from say 00 - 2.00 am only?

There are built in controls to stop and resume at set times

>a.2 if yes, will there be an osx client?

Potentially

>a.3 if yes, will there be a linux client? (for example guiless ubuntu server which can take some time to sync the audio part of the files when it feels like)

Less likely

>b. how happy would you be with the pro users? (no duplicates there i guess. unless you can process parts of the OMF files), flac, OMF, large mp3 files to be supported?

The T&C will well list the conditions, we reserve the right to end accounts which are overbearing of self created content.

>c. restoration is possible on a file by file basis?

Yes



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westgroveg
post Sep 13 2011, 01:46
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How will you cover your server costs when your down data is going to be way higher than your up with only a possibility of revenue at a unknown future date?? Not to mention the storage costs which are not cheap ethier when we are talking about lossless music collections of 500GB +

This makes no business sense, I suspect spoon will either dramatically change the service in the future or if it's very popular sell out and it will be, again, changed by the new owners

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SCOTU
post Sep 13 2011, 02:26
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There's this funny thing where rational, experienced people only tend to start businesses that they can see making money. Spoon is both rational and experienced, and I'm sure he has a way to make money on this.
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spoon
post Sep 13 2011, 08:01
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If you look at the bigger picture, there is only a finite amount of audio in existence, we intend to store it all.


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mudlord
post Sep 13 2011, 11:58
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And then do what? Replicate it? Keep it all for yourself?

Use it to document trends and sell the info to marketers?
Its these sort of issues I am wondering about, before I think about trying this.

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Martel
post Sep 13 2011, 13:03
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While there's a limited volume of (officially released) music, there are almost limitless possibilities to screw up the ripping process or use different encoders, ending up with different bits for the same content. smile.gif


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spoon
post Sep 13 2011, 13:13
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Conspiracy theories aside, AudioSAFE is not a ploy to increase my 'own audio stash', when Spotify offers some 10 million tracks or so for a small fee a month, that would be better than spending 1000x more per month on servers....

T&C will appear before full launch, which will show what we intend do with the data (ideas on a post card, to... smile.gif ). At this stage the only possible use for the 'data' (in addition to providing people a genuine backup) is to create some super auto ID tagger, which is possible if you have access to content, but I am in two minds whether to per-sue such, there is a wisdom of crowds, but I have a feeling such crowds might just point to freedb quality of tagging, which is not great. Album art is the possible exception, but labels have been not so long ago claiming copyright on the artwork, they for obvious reasons cannot do so on track names.

Or possibly audio track identifier based on audio markers, it has been done before, Gracenote have such, MusicBrainz, AMG, in my testing I was never bowled over by the accuracy of such systems. I think Garf did similar on HA a while back?

This post has been edited by spoon: Sep 13 2011, 13:15


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westgroveg
post Sep 13 2011, 13:37
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QUOTE (spoon @ Sep 13 2011, 20:01) *
If you look at the bigger picture, there is only a finite amount of audio in existence, we intend to store it all.

I'm starting to get an idea of how this works, this must be some advanced system you have developed

Martel makes a good point though, and also optical drive offsets will mean will be near impossible for some files even with lossless encoding

Can you assure your service users that upload will remain free?
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spoon
post Sep 13 2011, 13:50
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>I'm starting to get an idea of how this works, this must be some advanced system you have develope

There is 8 months of coding behind it (probably double that if it was not based of existing code, such as offset finding, codecs, etc).

>Can you assure your service users that upload will remain free?

That is the whole concept, without that it is just another run of the mill backup.


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Garf
post Oct 5 2011, 06:59
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QUOTE (spoon @ Aug 28 2011, 11:22) *
If you create a new account (PM to tell you how to do so), then it will do as you request, the old account will automatically self remove after 6 months of not being used.


I just realized this is...tricky...behavior for a backup resource. If you don't back up your collection at least once every 6 months, your backup goes away. If I'm not in ripping season, my collection easily stays untouched for many months at an end.
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Northpack
post Oct 5 2011, 08:06
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QUOTE (Garf @ Oct 5 2011, 05:59) *
I just realized this is...tricky...behavior for a backup resource. If you don't back up your collection at least once every 6 months, your backup goes away.

That would indeed foil the whole purpose of a backup system. I just wonder what reasoning is behind this deadline? The audio remains on the server anyway - the remaining account data should have zero impact on server load.

This post has been edited by Northpack: Oct 5 2011, 08:14
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spoon
post Oct 5 2011, 09:21
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It is not tricky in that:

you are warned by email 1 month before that the account is unused, simply running the client for 5 seconds will give you another 6 months.

We do not leave your files on the server, if your account is removed your files are removed.


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Northpack
post Oct 5 2011, 09:37
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QUOTE (spoon @ Oct 5 2011, 09:21) *
you are warned by email 1 month before that the account is unused, simply running the client for 5 seconds will give you another 6 months.

What if your are on a sabbatical or on a semester abroad and do not have access to your home computer for 6 months?
QUOTE
We do not leave your files on the server, if your account is removed your files are removed.

Do you mean that all audio data with zero owner relations is deleted (I thought the purpose of AudioSAFE is to collect as much decorrelated audio data as possible - or do you keep only lossless and dischard lossy files)? Even then, if my collection isn't that esoteric, most files would probably have other owners...

This post has been edited by Northpack: Oct 5 2011, 09:45
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spoon
post Oct 5 2011, 09:53
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I will not disclose any details of how the backend is stored, only that - if you record yourself singing in the shower, upload the audiosafe, then your account closes (through your own means, or an unused account for half a year), your recording will be removed from audiosafe. If you hand your recording to a friend, that friend then backs up as well, and you close your account, you cannot expect us to remove the other backup also, it is valid in the other account.


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_mē_
post Oct 5 2011, 10:55
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I don't like the policy either. 1-month long holidays happen to some and an email can be lost unread for the whole time. Computer being 1 month in repair? The same.
Spam filter deleting the message? Mail server refusing it for whatever reason?
Also, I see little reason NOT to use a spam email for services like this one, so somebody like me has no chance of reading the warning at all.

This post has been edited by _mē_: Oct 5 2011, 10:58
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Northpack
post Oct 5 2011, 11:46
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Proposal: send at least two warning mails. One 4 weeks, and another one 1 week before deleting the account. And - very important - include the possibility to renew the account by replying to that email, or by some web interface (for the scenario described above).
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SCOTU
post Oct 5 2011, 15:14
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't AudioSAFE supposed to have a background client that runs basically all the time, so for your unused account to be deleted, you'd have to basically not run your computer for 6 contiguous months?
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spoon
post Oct 5 2011, 20:30
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Not to mention the client would start showing errors if it has been blocked from accessing AS for 2 months straight (say a firewall was playing up).


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Garf
post Oct 6 2011, 07:02
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QUOTE (SCOTU @ Oct 5 2011, 16:14) *
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't AudioSAFE supposed to have a background client that runs basically all the time, so for your unused account to be deleted, you'd have to basically not run your computer for 6 contiguous months?


Some people don't like to keep a bunch of services running that they don't need. If I'm not ripping new stuff, why would I need the client running? Let alone, it probably needs to scan the collection on startup, making the system slower.
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SCOTU
post Oct 6 2011, 18:54
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The majority of people I know, myself included, also don't like things that consume resources in the background. However, I have the feeling that something like AudioSAFE (while I haven't tried it to confirm it) probably consumes an entirely negligible amount of resources to the point where you probably couldn't even care on my 6 year old laptop. Having already said I don't like things running in the background, I do run a fair number of things in the background all the time because they're helpful.

>Some people don't like having things run in the background
->Some people don't like having their audio not backed up, or risking losing their backup via some tremendously unlikely hypothetical scenario.
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Garf
post Oct 10 2011, 07:14
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QUOTE (SCOTU @ Oct 6 2011, 19:54) *
However, I have the feeling that something like AudioSAFE (while I haven't tried it to confirm it) probably consumes an entirely negligible amount of resources to the point where you probably couldn't even care on my 6 year old laptop.


If you had bothered to check, you would have seen it will use 100% CPU for a minute or so, and reads hundreds of megabytes, on startup. And that is a on a fast system, not a 6 year old laptop. It's true that once synced resource usage is small, but if it starts up automatically with Windows, you're going to have to wait more. Every little "helpful" application that starts with your system is a big contributor to a slow system boot. The more you can get rid of them, the better.
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