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The sound of a cable, Possible reasoning why not?
Notat
post Sep 8 2011, 03:07
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QUOTE (mixminus1 @ Sep 7 2011, 15:03) *
Considering that one cable has a 0.75mm^2 cross-sectional conductor area (~19 AWG), and the other has 2.5mm (~13 AWG), all this test does is prove the laws of physics correct

And it hints that 19 AWG is not quite big enough for wiring these speakers.
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greynol
post Sep 8 2011, 03:41
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QUOTE (Notat @ Sep 7 2011, 19:04) *
If you're suspecting that it would be flat, a close look should convince you that is not exactly the case.

Well within 2 dB, Notat, with the biggest delta being at the low end trending down as it goes up in frequency. It's damn near flat, no question about it; any ripple would be dwarfed by what happens by simply moving your head.

I'd also like to see additional plots, hopefully giving some king of indication as to how precise the measurements were. Do you care to comment on what that delta might be?

This post has been edited by greynol: Sep 8 2011, 03:55


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greynol
post Sep 8 2011, 03:48
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QUOTE (Notat @ Sep 7 2011, 19:07) *
And it hints that 19 AWG is not quite big enough for wiring these speakers.

Suggesting that someone needs a thicker gauge than 19 AWG is hardly unreasonable, nor necessarily expensive (though I suppose "expensive" is subjective). Suggesting from these plots that clear audible degradation is a slam dunk would be unreasonable, however.

This post has been edited by greynol: Sep 8 2011, 17:41


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F.Ultra
post Sep 8 2011, 07:18
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QUOTE
So then it really provides us with no useful information about the sound of cables?
Sorry! But then again that wasn't my goal, I just wanted to point out that even a change in only the resistance and inductance can introduce non linear differences. This is not about cable A is better/worse than cable B.

Yes a graph of the differences would be more interesting since that is basically what I wanted to display, but since I don't have access to the raw data I couldn't do that. But I think that it is quite clear that there is close to 1dB differences on some frequencies and 0.5dB in others indicating that it is not a linear difference. Since we don't know what measuring equipment was used we cannot know if these changes are due to precision, so this is far from a proof, it was just that I found these images and thought them interesting.
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2Bdecided
post Sep 8 2011, 10:23
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QUOTE (F.Ultra @ Sep 8 2011, 07:18) *
so this is far from a proof, it was just that I found these images and thought them interesting.
Yes, I agree. It's just another example of what we already know: if the cable is too thin/long, it's resistance will be too high and hence significant wrt the varying impedance of the speakers. Easily measurable (and, if taken to extremes, audible) frequency response variations will occur.

Respected 2.5mm speaker cable is less than £2 a metre. By respected, I mean genuine copper, with plastic coating that doesn't react with copper or air or human fingers, and has been available for years.

There's plenty of stuff on eBay that works out less then 50p a metre. I have some, but I'm not qualified to say whether the metal and plastic are genuine and will last ten years. Ask me in ten years wink.gif. At least it has the polarity marked, which some brands of "respected" budget speaker cable do not.

I previously used 0.75mm mains cable (flex), sometimes over a long and unequal run. There must have been measurable loss and frequency response variation on at least one channel, but due to the room and speaker placement that cable was used in, that set-up was actually the best that my own stereo has ever sounded. So much for speaker cables being important! (TOS 8? How exactly do you propose I ABX different rooms in different houses? wink.gif )

Cheers,
David.

This post has been edited by 2Bdecided: Sep 8 2011, 10:25
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dhromed
post Sep 8 2011, 11:04
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Sep 8 2011, 11:23) *
(TOS 8? How exactly do you propose I ABX different rooms in different houses? wink.gif )


A Portal gun, obviously.
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Northpack
post Sep 8 2011, 11:29
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QUOTE (dhromed @ Sep 8 2011, 10:04) *
QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Sep 8 2011, 11:23) *
(TOS 8? How exactly do you propose I ABX different rooms in different houses? wink.gif )


A Portal gun, obviously.

Or much simpler: just find a theatre with a revolving stage...
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krabapple
post Sep 8 2011, 16:23
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QUOTE (F.Ultra @ Sep 7 2011, 15:45) *
QUOTE
wow, terrible cables if true.
You do realise that this is a graph of amp->speakers and not the cables right wink.gif


busted ;>



This post has been edited by krabapple: Sep 8 2011, 16:29
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Porcus
post Sep 8 2011, 17:20
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QUOTE (Notat @ Sep 8 2011, 04:04) *
QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 7 2011, 14:51) *
Why not plot the difference between the two cables?

...I think I know the answer.
cool.gif

If you're suspecting that it would be flat, a close look should convince you that is not exactly the case. Difference appears to vary by 0.5 dB or so across the measured frequency range. This is caused by complex impedance of the speaker. This is potentially an audible difference even after level match.



Well steep and/or rugged graphs might make it difficult to spot variability of the difference with the eye, so it is certainly a point taking the difference.

(I have to admit though, that the first answer that struck me when Greynol asked «Why not plot the difference», was «because it would be moderated» :-o)


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greynol
post Sep 8 2011, 17:24
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Perhaps it was open to interpretation, but that wasn't the correct answer. wink.gif

This post has been edited by greynol: Sep 8 2011, 17:41


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