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foobar and ambiphonics
kraut
post Jun 5 2011, 17:19
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Has anybody else tried this:

http://www.ambiophonics.org/

I have finally found for the foobar environment the proper working ambiophonics plug in -

http://www.weldroid.net/2010/02/ambiophoni...t-ambioone.html

you just have to extract into foobar compent folder.
you also have to get the vst wrapper to enable the plugin.

http://www.yohng.com/software/foobarvst.html


I have listened with this setup for several weeks now.
The image is not only side to side, but back to front in no unsubtle ways.
The sound seems to emanate not from between the speakers anymore, but all around them, however without 360 degree ambio still in front of you,

This mode seems to permit to discern layers of instruments and a spacing that is not available in regular stereo.
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Rozzo
post Jun 5 2011, 22:43
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Quite an enhacement, thank you!!
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kraut
post Jun 6 2011, 00:03
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QUOTE (Rozzo @ Jun 5 2011, 14:43) *
Quite an enhacement, thank you!!


I am still not 100% sure - I like it, but while the stereo effect in a regular setup is almost always there (falsely, maybe?) the side to side stereo effect seems in ambio very much dependent on the mastering.
The back to front effect seems to be a given. as well as the enhanced ability to discern layers within a production - I have heard much better separation of background voices among themselves as well as from the main voice, same with instruments that do not seem to mash as much.

The tonal quality of instruments does not seem to be effected, actually it seems to be more natural than with regular stereo, maybe because instruments are portrayed more as separate entities.
But on some tracks playback seems to be concentrated in the centre - not really mono, because one still can separate the foreground instruments - like guitar, voice - from what is happening further in the background - drums, percussion etc.

One can still tweak the ambio setting and I would like to get some feedback from others what tweaks/settings work for them. I will paste a picture of my settings later.

This post has been edited by kraut: Jun 6 2011, 00:04
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kraut
post Jun 6 2011, 01:41
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QUOTE (kraut @ Jun 5 2011, 16:03) *
QUOTE (Rozzo @ Jun 5 2011, 14:43) *
Quite an enhacement, thank you!!


I am still not 100% sure - I like it, but while the stereo effect in a regular setup is almost always there (falsely, maybe?) the side to side stereo effect seems in ambio very much dependent on the mastering.
The back to front effect seems to be a given. as well as the enhanced ability to discern layers within a production - I have heard much better separation of background voices among themselves as well as from the main voice, same with instruments that do not seem to mash as much.

The tonal quality of instruments does not seem to be effected, actually it seems to be more natural than with regular stereo, maybe because instruments are portrayed more as separate entities.
But on some tracks playback seems to be concentrated in the centre - not really mono, because one still can separate the foreground instruments - like guitar, voice - from what is happening further in the background - drums, percussion etc.

One can still tweak the ambio setting and I would like to get some feedback from others what tweaks/settings work for them. I will paste a picture of my settings later.





Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I found most rock and jazz bands well imaged with this method, with extensions several feet to the left and right of the speakers and extended in depth, also most classical orchestral music sounds very well imaged.
The problem comes with records where the ambient sound or the stereo image seem to have been already processed in some way.
While "kiss my Axe" by Al diMeola sounds very good and spatially extended, "Pictures of an Exhibition" and "Night on a Bald Mountain" produced by Telarc sounds spatially compressed and dull.
Classical records by other companies, especially BIS sound in contrast very well imaged.

This post has been edited by kraut: Jun 6 2011, 02:01
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kraut
post Jul 6 2011, 06:14
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After some time living with the freely available version I grew dissatisfied with the rather limited controls.
So I decided to purchase for $25 the version available at http://electro-music.com/catalog/product_i...products_id/114.

Be astonished what effect - to good and bad - a really powerful processor has.
One has to be careful to adjust the controls - especially zentrum and space - only incrementally.
I also find the balance option very useful as some recordings are produced rather off centre, which seems to much more annoying in ambio.
The depiction of space in depth and sideways extension can be astonishing.

I use this component for almost a month now, and the effect is not superficial, it is truly an enhancement in the reproduction of the spatial imagine encoded in a recording.

Here a picture of the plugin, which works well within foobar vst.


By kraut_2 at 2011-06-27


Her a link to the discussion forum:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-37687.html

This post has been edited by kraut: Jul 6 2011, 06:27
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Rozzo
post Jul 7 2011, 16:11
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I am satisfied by using the first vst plugin you adviced with a physical barrier separating both speakers.

I did try also panambiophonics with 4 speakers, using the ambiophonics transcoder (http://www.hotto.de/software/fourchannelambiophonictranscoder.html) and Virtual Cable (http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm), but I have no way to understand if my configuration was right.

I live this ambhiophonic thing as a clear improvement from stereo or 5.1. No more dsp to colorate music, ambio plugin is all needed. And the best thing is that I can hear music much longer without feeling tired.

Thanks,
Rozzo

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kraut
post Jul 7 2011, 16:47
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QUOTE (Rozzo @ Jul 7 2011, 08:11) *
I am satisfied by using the first vst plugin you adviced with a physical barrier separating both speakers.

Thanks,
Rozzo


Can you please explain how you do this?

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Rozzo
post Jul 7 2011, 19:42
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Something like this, adapted to my room and speakers:

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/pol.bct/exemples/Ambioph2.jpg

Ys
Rozzo

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kraut
post Jul 8 2011, 08:21
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That is pretty hardcore, and I guess my wife would throw me out if I would do this. With the Moscivitz processor you can achieve the same without the physical barrier.
I was still somewhat ambivalent as to the real utility of ambio - I now know why.
Today I was for certain reasons the first time able to listen at a really appropriate sound level, above 90 db, to the music, and what a revelation - regular stereo is so dead to me.
When compared to the loudspeaker vanishing act that ambio performs regular stereo is flat, without depth. There are now no more speakers, there are just the singers and the instruments in the space in front of you, extending into the space in front of you, in breadth and depth.
The performance wins in clarity of the voices, instruments depicted, the depth of voices in foreground and background, the layering of the background chorus in different segments. It is not just a spatial novelty effect, the music it self wins enormously.
I really, after this session, pity anybody who listens in the usual stereo setup. There is simply no comparison, this is the closest one can get to the illusion of a live performance in the studio or in front of the stage.
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db1989
post Jul 8 2011, 13:46
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For all I know, this may well involve a more readily audible aspect than the usual ToS#8 stuff, but try to restrain your subjective praise and also to refrain from blanketing everyone who hasn’t tried it and/or who is fine with their “usual stereo setup” with your “pity”. Yeah, you like it; we get it. Don’t feel that you have a duty to convert everyone.
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kraut
post Jul 8 2011, 16:22
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QUOTE
Don’t feel that you have a duty to convert everyone.


It is purely subjective - maybe someone can try a blind test for this.
As to convert - I only want to encourage others to try. The one download is free - I find it however somewhat limited as to controls, but it is a no cost start.
Different from cables, tube rolling etc....
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mosc
post Jul 15 2011, 22:21
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QUOTE (Rozzo @ Jul 7 2011, 10:42) *
Something like this, adapted to my room and speakers:

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/pol.bct/exemples/Ambioph2.jpg


Wow, Rozzo. That is one impressive setup. With the center barrier and those linear array speakers, you are getting fabulous stereo. You don't need any form of ambiophonic process when using the physical barrier. In fact the processors are needed to electronically duplicate the effect of the barrier. I guess Kraut said that already.

Anyway, your linear array spearkers are pretty much ideal for ambiophonic stereo reproduction, with or without the barrier.
Enjoy...

This post has been edited by mosc: Jul 15 2011, 22:22
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mosc
post Jul 15 2011, 22:50
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QUOTE (kraut @ Jul 7 2011, 23:21) *
It is not just a spatial novelty effect, the music it self wins enormously.
I really, after this session, pity anybody who listens in the usual stereo setup. There is simply no comparison, this is the closest one can get to the illusion of a live performance in the studio or in front of the stage.


Thanks, Kraut, for the warm review of the AmbiophonicDSP VST plugin.

Here are some thoughts about Ambiophonics vs conventional 60 degree stereo, which I'll call stereo.

Stereo is at it worst when playing mono material because hearing the same sound from two widely separated sources causes cross-talk with creates comb filtering. The ear wants to hear this for what it is, two separate sources, not one emanating from the center. Oddly, ambiphonic spaced speakers, 15 to 20 degrees, produces much better mono. This is why, no matter how good the speakers are, listening to conventionally spaced speakers results in your ear/brain figuring out that there are only two sound sources, and eventually, the sound field is heard to emanate from the two speakers.

The most important musical material in most stereophonic recordings is almost always in the center of the sound stage. Stereo by it's nature, distorts the center image. Only the sounds on the extreme left and route are not distorted by cross-talk cancellation. The AmbiophonicDSP and other cross-talk cancelers are designed to correct for this.

When using a cross-talk canceler, like our AmbiophonicDSP, sometimes there is the experience that the center, or in the case of pop music, the singer, is too far back or too far forward. The Zentrum control is suitable for adjusting this.

People trying ambiophonic playback of stereophonic recordings are often amazed that the sound stage is sometimes much wider than conventional stereo placement.

This isn't a matter of converting or pity, it's about a terrific advancement is stereophonic reproduction that is not expensive or difficult to use, and will greatly enhance one's appreciation of their existing stereophonic recording collection. It's also a great way to enhance the sound of close based computer speakers, including those built in laptop speakers.

Thanks for a great forum...


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kraut
post Jul 31 2011, 21:07
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I have been looking for a way to play records through foobar, utilizing the installed Dsps, especially ambiophonics.
I have installed foo-records now and with some hints found in the forum was finally able to get it to run.

I love being able to run foobar as a universal player now, with the option (mandatory now for me) to use the ambiophonics processor.
Unfortunately, because of the processing delay through the recording process, the playback of TV audio is not feasible - total loss of synchronizing.
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