IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
What is MP3 Track Gain, ToS6: moved from MP3 - Tech as neither MP3-specific nor very technical
gsingh13
post May 29 2011, 23:38
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 29-May 11
Member No.: 91078



I have a few mp3's some there is no "track gain" whatever that is but some mp3 files do have a track gain e.g. -9.80db. First, what exactly is this? Does this mean the sound of the mp3 or quality of the mp3 has been distorted or changed? Second, if it has done somthing to the sound, different from the original, how would I restore it to its original sound? Please help thanks.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
tpijag
post May 30 2011, 00:27
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 2349
Joined: 19-May 08
Member No.: 53637



You're kidding right? What trouble did you come up against when when you tried to determine this on your own?

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chro...p;q=replay+gain

second link is hosted here.

This post has been edited by tpijag: May 30 2011, 00:28
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gsingh13
post May 30 2011, 01:13
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 29-May 11
Member No.: 91078



I've looked online but I'm not understanding.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
tpijag
post May 30 2011, 01:36
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 2349
Joined: 19-May 08
Member No.: 53637



All tracks and/or albums across all music and all time are at differing sound levels. You are listening to music and turn the volume up and then down over and over. Replaygain looks at your music and tries to help so you no longer are grabbing at the volume level.

In your case, there are gain numbers in the tags that a quality player will notice and the player will adjust the sound level. Nothing in your music itself has changed. Some tracks have replaygain tags and some do not. This is based on your actions. You either asked some program to provide them for you, or you acquired music from a source and have no history as to what was done.

There is a ton on information on this subject here available through any simple search using the box at the top of the page. I will be glad to provide some help, though you really have to work through some of this on your own. The proverbial one step at a time. A blanket, I do not understand with no detail will not provide further assistance from me. Others will have to help.

This post has been edited by tpijag: May 30 2011, 01:38
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gsingh13
post May 30 2011, 10:52
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 29-May 11
Member No.: 91078



Well I have been doing some research of my own and since I couldn't understand it that is why I posted on here. Anyway from what I have read I now understand this "track gain" is to do with the volume. Now what you have said make's sense it levels out the audio tracks in each file but here lies the difficulty for me. For a hardware device such as an ipod or a CD player clicking a button to level out the audio is fine and no problem however I have bought the mp3 files not as an album but as single files. So, leveling out the audio makes no sense. How does the audio player such as windows media player level out 1 audio track since it has nothing to compare to. If I'm only listening or playing one track in windows media player then how can it or why would it adjust the volume since it's not comparing it to anything? Again your help would be appreciated.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
lvqcl
post May 30 2011, 11:10
Post #6





Group: Developer
Posts: 3372
Joined: 2-December 07
Member No.: 49183



There's a reference level:

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...Reference_level
http://replaygain.hydrogenaudio.org/propos...alibration.html
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gsingh13
post May 30 2011, 11:17
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 29-May 11
Member No.: 91078



I understand what it is now but my difficulty is understanding how it works on my computer or cd player. If I had 2 of the same track one with -9.80db and one without any db what would the difference be when played back.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
lvqcl
post May 30 2011, 11:24
Post #8





Group: Developer
Posts: 3372
Joined: 2-December 07
Member No.: 49183



If the player knows about ReplayGain and RG correction is turned on then the first track will be 9.8dB quieter than the second.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gsingh13
post May 30 2011, 12:04
Post #9





Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 29-May 11
Member No.: 91078



if there is only one track playing or on the cd/ipod then how can it be quiter than the second track? This is where i'm puzzled.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
lvqcl
post May 30 2011, 12:30
Post #10





Group: Developer
Posts: 3372
Joined: 2-December 07
Member No.: 49183



Huh? ReplayGain algorithm calculates loudness of a track. It doesn't compare one track one to another.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gsingh13
post May 30 2011, 12:40
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 29-May 11
Member No.: 91078



OK so when I right click on an mp3 file and it says -9.80db what does it mean? If i only have this one song on my ipod or whatever playing device then what does -9.80 mean? You said "If the player knows about ReplayGain and RG correction is turned on then the first track will be 9.8dB quieter than the second" but what if there is only one track one there. Why would it need to be quiter or is that just how the track has been recorded?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
lvqcl
post May 30 2011, 13:17
Post #12





Group: Developer
Posts: 3372
Joined: 2-December 07
Member No.: 49183



QUOTE
OK so when I right click on an mp3 file and it says -9.80db what does it mean?


This means that this track is 9.8 dB louder than the reference level.

QUOTE
Why would it need to be quiter


?? Again, here's the link: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...n_specification

QUOTE
...a random play through a music collection can have one leaping for the volume control every other track.

There is a solution to this annoyance: within each audio file, information can be stored about what volume change would be required to play each track or album at a standard loudness, and players can use this "replay gain" information to automatically nudge the volume up or down as required.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
evereux
post May 30 2011, 13:28
Post #13





Group: Members
Posts: 907
Joined: 9-February 02
From: Cheshire, UK
Member No.: 1296



QUOTE (gsingh13 @ May 30 2011, 11:40) *
You said "If the player knows about ReplayGain and RG correction is turned on then the first track will be 9.8dB quieter than the second" but what if there is only one track one there. Why would it need to be quiter or is that just how the track has been recorded?

If you only have one track, don't enable replaygain if you don't want to.

If you only have one track and replaygain is enabled it will still be 9.8dB quieter than it was without replaygain enabled.

You're over thinking this?

This post has been edited by evereux: May 30 2011, 13:29


--------------------
daefeatures.co.uk
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gsingh13
post May 30 2011, 13:48
Post #14





Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 29-May 11
Member No.: 91078



Thank you for your replies. I'm not over thinking it I'm just trying to establish what it is before I start buying loads of mp3's. You seem to know what you are talking about and I'm very grateful your helping me. Ok I think I'm starting to understand.

I just want to clarify first of all that replaygain, if enabled on the player be it an ipod, cd player or windows media player on a computer, equalizes the volume of the tracks so you don't keeping adjusting the volume. Is this correct?

Second, the volume is only adjusted i.e. -9.80db quiter if and only if replaygain is enabled on the audio player but if it's not, then the audio file or track will play in its original volume. Is this correct?

I'm starting to think replaygain is better to have than not to have on the audio file but what if i wanted to remove it. Not that I'm going to still through hundreds of mp3 files going through them but if I wanted to remove it is it possible? From what I've read on sites I think it's possible but specific software is required.

Replaygain on one album is fine and makes sense but what if for example I have purchased several mp3's all from different albums and I make one compilation album of all these different mp3's. Won't then replaygain, if enabled on the audio player, become pointless? I ask because different CD's have different volume levels anyway.

Again your help would be much appreciated.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Zarggg
post May 30 2011, 21:49
Post #15





Group: Members
Posts: 555
Joined: 18-January 04
From: bethlehem.pa.us
Member No.: 11318



All of this is (should be) explained in the wiki page for Replay Gain here. You really should give that a read.

Album-based ReplayGain establishes an overall RG level for the album itself and adjust all tracks accordingly. Different CDs will have different levels because they are mastered with different loudness.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
saratoga
post May 30 2011, 22:52
Post #16





Group: Members
Posts: 4926
Joined: 2-September 02
Member No.: 3264



QUOTE (gsingh13 @ May 30 2011, 08:48) *
I just want to clarify first of all that replaygain, if enabled on the player be it an ipod, cd player or windows media player on a computer, equalizes the volume of the tracks so you don't keeping adjusting the volume. Is this correct?

Second, the volume is only adjusted i.e. -9.80db quiter if and only if replaygain is enabled on the audio player but if it's not, then the audio file or track will play in its original volume. Is this correct?


For the third time, just read the damn link already:

QUOTE
Although music is encoded to a digital format with a clearly defined maximum peak amplitude, and although most recordings are normalized to utilize this peak amplitude, not all recordings sound equally loud. This is because once this peak amplitude is reached, perceived loudness can be further increased through signal-processing techniques such as dynamic range compression and equalization.[1] Therefore, the loudness of a given album has more to do with the year of issue or the whim of the producer than the intended emotional effect. Because of this, a random play through a music collection can have one leaping for the volume control every other track.

There is a solution to this annoyance: within each audio file, information can be stored about what volume change would be required to play each track or album at a standard loudness, and players can use this "replay gain" information to automatically nudge the volume up or down as required.


Seriously, you need to read like the first 3 or 4 sentences here! Would take you maybe 30 seconds. Its really not that hard!
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gsingh13
post Jun 2 2011, 18:33
Post #17





Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 29-May 11
Member No.: 91078



Well it wouldn't be that hard for someone who understood the terms "maximum peak amplitude". I don't know what "peak amplitude" is. Anyway I understand what replaygain is now but I would like to ask how they get the "reference level" for them to decided how loud an audio file should be. One mp3 file has -9.80db but why -9.0db? Why not something else? And can the replay gain be adjusted?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
saratoga
post Jun 2 2011, 20:24
Post #18





Group: Members
Posts: 4926
Joined: 2-September 02
Member No.: 3264



QUOTE (gsingh13 @ Jun 2 2011, 13:33) *
Well it wouldn't be that hard for someone who understood the terms "maximum peak amplitude". I don't know what "peak amplitude" is.


Either look it up, or just keep reading since the definition really has nothing to do with what you wanted to know. Or even just ask. Do not give up and assume you cannot learn anything the instant you encounter something you do not know. If you do that you will never learn anything.

QUOTE (gsingh13 @ Jun 2 2011, 13:33) *
Anyway I understand what replaygain is now but I would like to ask how they get the "reference level" for them to decided how loud an audio file should be. One mp3 file has -9.80db but why -9.0db? Why not something else? And can the replay gain be adjusted?


The reference level is the target volume, and its always the same. The value you are looking at is the "track gain", and its the difference between the reference level and the file's actual level. The wiki link describes the algorithm used to compute it, but basically you get that number by running a replaygain scanner on a file. The scanner does some math on the audio and spits out a that number. Some programs will let you change it, but aside from debugging or testing this is generally not done.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
SonicBooom!
post Jun 8 2011, 06:49
Post #19





Group: Members
Posts: 118
Joined: 16-February 11
Member No.: 88210



QUOTE
Does this mean the sound of the mp3 or quality of the mp3 has been distorted or changed?

The quality didn't change, the volume did. (Therefore, it is lossless. It's like tuning the volume knob on your component higher or lower.)

QUOTE
if it has done somthing to the sound, different from the original, how would I restore it to its original sound?

Yes, it does done something to the sound, but only to make the volume higher or lower. Click Modify Gain > Undo Gain changes.

QUOTE
Well it wouldn't be that hard for someone who understood the terms "maximum peak amplitude". I don't know what "peak amplitude" is.

I didn't understand the definition either (by looking at Wikipedia, for there are bunch of technical terms concerning audio, and I'm just a hillbilly) but in my opinion based on the words "peak amplitude", it is the actual volume of the sound. Am I right? (Correct me "gently" if I'm wrong crying.gif )


--------------------
sin(α) = v sound/v object = Mach No.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 2nd September 2014 - 20:06