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Infinity Primus 360 - beech floor standing speakers, good choice? Close to wall
2Bdecided
post May 23 2011, 15:59
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Amazingly, my wife has offered to buy me a new pair of speakers!

It's not an entirely altruistic offer - we're moving house, and she doesn't want my "horrible ugly black speakers spoiling our new living room". smile.gif

I've had these Mission 760iSEs on stands for nearly 18 years. There's a sub too - forget what it is. They've been OK. To be honest, the sound has been so dramatically different in the different places I've lived, that I think the speakers are less important than the room. Once a great soundstage. Mostly not much of one, though they sound good enough. But anyway...


The new speakers must be oak or beech, and preferably floor standing. I think spending over 500 would be pushing my luck! It would be nice to not really need the sub (it's not very good).

Searching and Googling has brought me to the Infinity Primus 360s.

Are these a good buy?

I ask because I don't live anywhere near a hi-fi shop any more, so have to buy "blind" ("deaf"?). Scary.

The room is 4m x 3.75m with 2.3m high ceilings. The speakers will sit either side of the fireplace (so only about 1.5m apart), very near to the wall. Not where I'd choose to put them at all, but speakers in the middle of the room would get in the way wink.gif

I play all kinds of music. Really. Sometimes very quietly, sometimes quite loudly. Especially if the neighbours are out.

I'll be replacing my amplifier soon, but for now will drive them with a Denon mini system or an Audiolab A8000 integrated.

So, am I making a good choice? Any alternatives I should consider?

btw, one thing I hate are systems which are so "revealing" (which often means having a very pronounced mid-range or treble) that they make less that perfect sources sound awful. But I do want to hear into the music, which really lousy speakers prevent.

Cheers,
David.

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2Bdecided
post Sep 5 2011, 16:45
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I've just been told that the Infinity Primus 360s are discontinued (which I'd guessed!), and there's no stock anywhere.

So back to the drawing board.

Floor standing speakers, beach or oak or even gloss white would be nice.

Or else pretty bookshelf speakers on pretty stands (same colour choice as above) plus one or two decent subs. But decent musical subs cost a lot of money IME (which is why my current sub isn't very good - bit of a "one note" quality to it!).

Any suggestions? Available in the UK!!!!!!

Cheers,
David.
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krabapple
post Sep 5 2011, 23:23
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Sep 5 2011, 11:45) *
I've just been told that the Infinity Primus 360s are discontinued (which I'd guessed!), and there's no stock anywhere.

So back to the drawing board.

Floor standing speakers, beach or oak or even gloss white would be nice.

Or else pretty bookshelf speakers on pretty stands (same colour choice as above) plus one or two decent subs. But decent musical subs cost a lot of money IME (which is why my current sub isn't very good - bit of a "one note" quality to it!).

Any suggestions? Available in the UK!!!!!!

Cheers,
David.



Hmm. Subs shouldn't be 'musical' any more than loudspeakers should be. In fact they should pretty much disappear.

I do think you'd have a lot more flexibility if you went with a sub + mains setup. It allows you to better separate modal issues from specular reflection issues (of any). My understanding is that most sub issues are 'solved' by using more than one with good placement -- and I don't think they need to be SOTA, just play low bass at decent levels without too much distortion. Then you could shop for mains with good off-axis response/directivity, you know, the usual Toole/Olive stuff. Oh, and a nice finish... wink.gif


(FWIW I use Berhringer 2030p's all around, on home-made stands, and I built my own 12" Dayton sub [just one for now, though I have an old 10" Velodyne in storage that I may break out again] -- unfortunately, not a setup to please the eye, neither mine nor my wife's. ;>)

Good luck on your hunt, and do keep us posted!

This post has been edited by krabapple: Sep 5 2011, 23:28
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2Bdecided
post Sep 6 2011, 09:48
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QUOTE (krabapple @ Sep 5 2011, 23:23) *
I do think you'd have a lot more flexibility if you went with a sub + mains setup. It allows you to better separate modal issues from specular reflection issues (of any). My understanding is that most sub issues are 'solved' by using more than one with good placement
Do you have any links going into any detail about that? I'd always assumed they'd just go right in the corners, but maybe that's not best?

QUOTE
-- and I don't think they need to be SOTA, just play low bass at decent levels without too much distortion. Then you could shop for mains with good off-axis response/directivity, you know, the usual Toole/Olive stuff. Oh, and a nice finish... wink.gif
...but where do I find a list and/or reviews of such things? Most speaker reviews are hopeless. Most hi-fi magazines are hopeless! Ironically I think some of the measurements in Stereophile may be the most helpful things I've seen. Do you know a better place to look?

I'm quite happy to go mains and sub(s) - especially if it makes placement of the mains less critical. There are two corners the subs could disappear into (behind the TV and behind the stereo).


QUOTE
(FWIW I use Berhringer 2030p's all around, on home-made stands, and I built my own 12" Dayton sub [just one for now, though I have an old 10" Velodyne in storage that I may break out again] -- unfortunately, not a setup to please the eye, neither mine nor my wife's. ;>)
If those speakers were prettier, and on pretty stands (I don't know - chrome? glass? not black) they would probably be fine.

There are pretty speakers out there, but some are stupid prices, and some sound like they should cost $10. There must be nice looking, sensible price, good performance somewhere...

Cheers,
David.
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krabapple
post Sep 6 2011, 16:46
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Sep 6 2011, 04:48) *
QUOTE (krabapple @ Sep 5 2011, 23:23) *
I do think you'd have a lot more flexibility if you went with a sub + mains setup. It allows you to better separate modal issues from specular reflection issues (of any). My understanding is that most sub issues are 'solved' by using more than one with good placement
Do you have any links going into any detail about that? I'd always assumed they'd just go right in the corners, but maybe that's not best?


Tom Nousaine has been a big proponent of corner placement for a single sub , because it excites room modes broadly. And there is that. But Todd Welti and colleagues at Harman has done a lot of modelling work on sub s in rooms, though it is for rectangular rooms that may not model your real-world room. In these models, two subs centered in front and back are one of several optimal solutions. In these simulations, corners are good, but it might not be the 'most good'. Here's a Harman whitepaper on same:
http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Tec...rs/multsubs.pdf

and a research paper that goes into much greater detail, with more positions tested:
http://blog.acousticfrontiers.com/storage/..._subwoofers.pdf

Note that the goal here it to get good bass across several listening positions.

Welti also hosts an expert subforum on subwoofers in rooms, on What's Best

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/forumdisplay...oofers-In-Rooms


Some audiophile sites recommend the 'crawl and listen' method -- place the sub at the listening position, play something with well-recorded bass, as you crawl around and listen for the spot that has excellent bass sound -- but personally I have never gotten this to work.


QUOTE
QUOTE
-- and I don't think they need to be SOTA, just play low bass at decent levels without too much distortion. Then you could shop for mains with good off-axis response/directivity, you know, the usual Toole/Olive stuff. Oh, and a nice finish... wink.gif
...but where do I find a list and/or reviews of such things? Most speaker reviews are hopeless. Most hi-fi magazines are hopeless! Ironically I think some of the measurements in Stereophile may be the most helpful things I've seen. Do you know a better place to look?


One good resource is SoundStage. They do a lot of NRC-type measurement of speakers they review.

http://www.soundstageav.com/speakermeasurements.htm

John Atkinson at Stereophile indeed also does an extensive panel of pseudo-anaechoic testing of reviewed loudspeakers.

QUOTE
There are pretty speakers out there, but some are stupid prices, and some sound like they should cost $10. There must be nice looking, sensible price, good performance somewhere...


IIRC Paradigm made some good measuring, good looking little speakers for not very great cost. Maybe they still do?

This post has been edited by krabapple: Sep 6 2011, 16:58
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2Bdecided
post Sep 6 2011, 17:38
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I will read those links, thanks.

QUOTE (krabapple @ Sep 6 2011, 16:46) *
Note that the goal here it to get good bass across several listening positions.
An OK goal, though I've never managed to get "good stereo" across several listening positions, so I'm not concerned about "good bass" over a wide area either. Not that I mind a sweet spot - I'm the only one in the house who really cares, so that works out just fine wink.gif

Centre front would be in the middle of the fireplace. Centre back would be behind the sofa.

QUOTE
Some audiophile sites recommend the 'crawl and listen' method -- place the sub at the listening position, play something with well-recorded bass, as you crawl around and listen for the spot that has excellent bass sound -- but personally I have never gotten this to work.
You mean put the sub where you should be, find where it sounds best like that, then swap positions with the sub? Appealing idea if it worked!



QUOTE
One good resource is SoundStage. They do a lot of NRC-type measurement of speakers they review.
Thanks - there's a lot on there. (had to knock the end off your URL and click through). EDIT: many of those are rare in the UK, and none of the common speakers in the UK are on there.

QUOTE
IIRC Paradigm made some good measuring, good looking little speakers for not very great cost. Maybe they still do?
I'll check them out. They're certainly not cheap over here in the UK.

Cheers,
David.

This post has been edited by 2Bdecided: Sep 6 2011, 17:51
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Posts in this topic
- 2Bdecided   Infinity Primus 360 - beech floor standing speakers   May 23 2011, 15:59
- - Apesbrain   Have you considered the Magneplanar MMG or MMGW? ...   May 23 2011, 16:27
- - 2Bdecided   Thanks Apesbrain. Nice suggestion! I think pa...   May 23 2011, 16:47
- - mixminus1   Very few floorstanders are designed to be used nea...   May 23 2011, 17:32
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (mixminus1 @ May 23 2011, 17:32) Ve...   May 23 2011, 21:37
- - Squeller   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ May 23 2011, 16:59) I...   May 23 2011, 17:52
- - DVDdoug   I'm sure those Infinitys are fine speakers. ...   May 23 2011, 20:12
- - 2Bdecided   Well, I won't be getting rid of the Missions, ...   May 23 2011, 21:33
- - jlohl   I own Infinity Primus 360 at home in a 5.4 x 4.5x ...   May 24 2011, 07:36
- - 2Bdecided   Thanks jlohl. Did you do your measurements in your...   May 24 2011, 09:58
|- - jlohl   QUOTE Thanks jlohl. Did you do your measurements i...   May 24 2011, 10:43
- - 2Bdecided   I like the way the Behringer smoothed out the ~120...   May 24 2011, 17:29
- - mixminus1   Also, where are they in the room, and specifically...   May 24 2011, 18:27
- - jlohl   QUOTE Can you hear much difference flat vs EQ...   May 24 2011, 21:18
- - jlohl   QUOTE Can you hear much difference flat vs EQ...   May 25 2011, 06:40
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (jlohl @ May 25 2011, 06:40) QUOTE ...   May 25 2011, 11:37
- - 2Bdecided   It's proving almost impossible to find these s...   Jun 23 2011, 10:23
|- - tfarney   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jun 23 2011, 05:23) It...   Jun 23 2011, 13:55
- - 2Bdecided   I could get them from Italy for 400 and goodness ...   Jun 23 2011, 17:23
- - 2Bdecided   I've just been told that the Infinity Primus 3...   Sep 5 2011, 16:45
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Sep 5 2011, 11:45) I...   Sep 5 2011, 23:23
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (krabapple @ Sep 5 2011, 23:23) I d...   Sep 6 2011, 09:48
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Sep 6 2011, 04:48) QUO...   Sep 6 2011, 16:46
|- - 2Bdecided   I will read those links, thanks. QUOTE (krabapple...   Sep 6 2011, 17:38
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Sep 6 2011, 12:38) Cen...   Sep 7 2011, 16:16
- - mixminus1   Re: "musicality" of subs: A subwoofer t...   Sep 6 2011, 00:05
- - 2Bdecided   I meant the resonance of the sub. Many have a comp...   Sep 6 2011, 09:42
- - krabapple   This thread on audioholics has some useful posts ...   Sep 8 2011, 19:40
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (krabapple @ Sep 8 2011, 19:40) Thi...   Sep 9 2011, 11:11
|- - krabapple   reviving this thread simply because I want to know...   Sep 27 2012, 02:38
- - 2Bdecided   Life. Buying speakers is still on the long ...   Sep 27 2012, 09:45


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