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Multiformat listening test @ ~64kbps: Results, Results and post-test discussion
IgorC
post Apr 12 2011, 00:40
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The test is finished, results are available here:

http://listening-tests.hydrogenaudio.org/igorc/results.html

Summary: CELT/Opus won, Apple HE-AAC is better than Nero HE-AAC, and Vorbis has caught up with Nero HE-AAC.
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Garf
post Apr 14 2011, 00:10
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QUOTE
Has anyone ever seriously blind-tested e.g. Dolby's and Fraunhofer's HE-AAC encoders in the last few years, especially at these bit rates? I'd be more than happy to test them here, provided I can choose their versions.


The CT/Dolby encoder was last tested here (AFAIK): http://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/aac_48/results.html
The latest version I have is 8.2.0 (found in the latest Winamp version). Igor took a look at this, and concluded it didn't seem improved much if at all since the 7.x series. I don't know if that is an accurate assessment, but it should be verifiable easily. I don't know of any newer versions, and 8.2 is from 2009.

Nobody ever tested Fraunhofer's HE-AAC encoder. Their MP3 encoder is available freely, and was tested in the past, but I couldn't find a free AAC encoder, which probably explains the complete lack of interest.

I'm not sure what you mean by "I'd be more than happy to test them here", but if you are able to provide copies of those codecs so they can be tested further including in future listening tests, that is probably a good idea. And if they do win those, your criticism is founded. Until then, I see little point.
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C.R.Helmrich
post Apr 14 2011, 10:46
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QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 14 2011, 01:10) *
I'm not sure what you mean by "I'd be more than happy to test them here", but if you are able to provide copies of those codecs so they can be tested further including in future listening tests, that is probably a good idea. And if they do win those, your criticism is founded. Until then, I see little point.

Yes, pointing to encoders and settings is what I mean. Sorry for not making it clear. I'll let you know once the encoders of my choice become available somewhere for all to try out.

Maybe some background information: my (and a colleague's) full-time job over the last 3 years has been to improve Fraunhofer's HE-AAC encoder. I'm quite confident that I actually made some progress smile.gif at least over Fraunhofer's older encoder versions. I'm not expecting my "latest greatest" work to win over Opus in a test like this one (because the latter sounds really good), but I hope that it would be tied on average.

I'll have to disagree (of course tongue.gif), Jean-Marc. The fact that Apple's HE-AAC implementation is quite new doesn't convince me it's fully mature. From Wikipedia:

QUOTE
As of September 2009, Apple has added support for HE-AAC (which is fully part of the MP4 standard) but iTunes still lacks support for true VBR encoding.

Chris

This post has been edited by C.R.Helmrich: Apr 14 2011, 10:50


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Posts in this topic
- IgorC   Multiformat listening test @ ~64kbps: Results   Apr 12 2011, 00:40
- - Garf   If someone can assist with a bitrate table or per-...   Apr 12 2011, 01:02
- - Garf   Oh, and given that Opus is open sourced, if one of...   Apr 12 2011, 01:06
- - AllanP   I just wonder one thing, when the Vorbis encoder w...   Apr 12 2011, 01:14
|- - Garf   QUOTE (AllanP @ Apr 12 2011, 02:14) I jus...   Apr 12 2011, 01:15
|- - AllanP   QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 12 2011, 02:15) You can...   Apr 12 2011, 01:22
- - romor   Congratulation to CELT/Opus! I wanted to com...   Apr 12 2011, 03:08
- - IgorC   I think the results of lessthanjoey and AlexB are ...   Apr 12 2011, 03:50
- - googlebot   I'm stunned by the CELT/Opus results! I wo...   Apr 12 2011, 08:06
|- - NullC   QUOTE (googlebot @ Apr 11 2011, 23:06) I...   Apr 14 2011, 05:00
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 14 2011, 00:00) We als...   Apr 14 2011, 06:29
||- - NullC   QUOTE (saratoga @ Apr 13 2011, 22:29) Is ...   Apr 14 2011, 08:30
|- - Garf   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 14 2011, 06:00) Low-la...   Apr 14 2011, 12:19
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 14 2011, 07:19) Is the ...   Apr 14 2011, 14:04
|- - NullC   QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 14 2011, 03:19) QUOTE (...   Apr 14 2011, 17:47
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 14 2011, 18:47) The sw...   Apr 14 2011, 23:39
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Apr 14 2011, 18:39)...   Apr 15 2011, 05:49
- - Alex B   Thanks guys! Interesting results. One note t...   Apr 12 2011, 12:59
|- - Garf   QUOTE (Alex B @ Apr 12 2011, 13:59) I got...   Apr 12 2011, 13:53
|- - NullC   QUOTE For processing the result .txt files with ch...   Apr 12 2011, 14:48
|- - Garf   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 12 2011, 15:48) Sounds...   Apr 12 2011, 14:59
||- - Alex B   QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 12 2011, 16:59) But the...   Apr 12 2011, 15:09
|- - Alex B   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 12 2011, 16:48) Sounds...   Apr 12 2011, 15:02
|- - NullC   QUOTE (Alex B @ Apr 12 2011, 07:02) QUOTE...   Apr 12 2011, 15:17
|- - motion_blur   QUOTE (Alex B @ Apr 12 2011, 16:02) QUOTE...   Apr 12 2011, 16:15
|- - NullC   QUOTE (motion_blur @ Apr 12 2011, 08:15) ...   Apr 12 2011, 17:54
|- - motion_blur   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 12 2011, 18:54) QUOTE ...   Apr 12 2011, 19:42
- - Alex B   For comparison I uploaded a rar package of my ...   Apr 12 2011, 14:14
|- - Garf   QUOTE (Alex B @ Apr 12 2011, 15:14) For c...   Apr 12 2011, 14:49
- - Alex B   QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 12 2011, 16:59) But the...   Apr 12 2011, 15:35
|- - Garf   QUOTE (Alex B @ Apr 12 2011, 16:35) QUOTE...   Apr 12 2011, 15:42
- - Alex B   Regarding the bitrate table, I guess that CELT/Op...   Apr 12 2011, 16:14
|- - NullC   QUOTE (Alex B @ Apr 12 2011, 08:14) Regar...   Apr 12 2011, 18:10
- - IgorC   Yes, I was too strict. Sorry about it. Some of th...   Apr 12 2011, 18:13
|- - motion_blur   QUOTE (IgorC @ Apr 12 2011, 19:13) Yes, I...   Apr 12 2011, 20:09
|- - NullC   QUOTE (motion_blur @ Apr 12 2011, 12:09) ...   Apr 13 2011, 00:59
|- - motion_blur   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 13 2011, 01:59) QUOTE ...   Apr 13 2011, 10:06
- - markanini   I figured ratings would vary between testers depen...   Apr 12 2011, 18:52
|- - NullC   QUOTE (markanini @ Apr 12 2011, 09:52) I ...   Apr 12 2011, 20:57
- - lessthanjoey   I've done some more testing with headphones af...   Apr 12 2011, 19:51
- - C.R.Helmrich   Thanks for organizing the tests, guys! Sorry f...   Apr 12 2011, 20:11
|- - motion_blur   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Apr 12 2011, 21:11)...   Apr 12 2011, 20:41
|- - Garf   QUOTE Please provide the number of valid results (...   Apr 12 2011, 21:44
||- - C.R.Helmrich   Sorry, Christoph, can't reproduce it. What you...   Apr 12 2011, 22:12
||- - Garf   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Apr 12 2011, 23:12)...   Apr 12 2011, 23:37
||- - motion_blur   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Apr 12 2011, 23:12)...   Apr 13 2011, 00:41
|- - NullC   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Apr 12 2011, 11:11)...   Apr 12 2011, 21:47
- - IgorC   motion_blur, You can download the results of all...   Apr 12 2011, 20:21
|- - _mē_   Some presentation suggestions: 1. Codec versions a...   Apr 12 2011, 20:43
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (_mē_ @ Apr 12 2011, 16:43) Some pr...   Apr 12 2011, 20:46
|- - Alex B   QUOTE (_mē_ @ Apr 12 2011, 22:43) 2. Link...   Apr 12 2011, 21:06
||- - Alex B   QUOTE (Alex B @ Apr 12 2011, 23:06) QUOTE...   Apr 13 2011, 11:38
||- - NullC   QUOTE (Alex B @ Apr 13 2011, 02:38) The b...   Apr 13 2011, 12:41
||- - Garf   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 13 2011, 13:41) QUOTE ...   Apr 13 2011, 12:54
||- - Alex B   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 13 2011, 14:41) Any id...   Apr 13 2011, 14:46
||- - NullC   QUOTE (Alex B @ Apr 13 2011, 05:46) QUOTE...   Apr 13 2011, 22:48
|- - Garf   QUOTE (_mē_ @ Apr 12 2011, 21:43) Some pr...   Apr 12 2011, 22:24
- - Alex B   Here is the raw data for a bitrate table. The bitr...   Apr 12 2011, 20:30
- - IgorC   Thank you for your help, AlexB. If you can do the ...   Apr 12 2011, 20:44
- - C.R.Helmrich   Christoph, do you mean the slightly washed out bas...   Apr 12 2011, 20:52
|- - motion_blur   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Apr 12 2011, 21:52)...   Apr 12 2011, 21:11
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (motion_blur @ Apr 12 2011, 22:11) ...   Apr 12 2011, 21:38
|- - motion_blur   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Apr 12 2011, 22:38)...   Apr 12 2011, 21:56
- - IgorC   I've checked. The decoder on Christoph's s...   Apr 12 2011, 20:54
- - Alex B   Here's the bitrate table: In Excel format: ...   Apr 12 2011, 22:20
|- - saintdev   QUOTE (Alex B @ Apr 12 2011, 14:20) Here...   Apr 12 2011, 23:21
- - NullC   QUOTE (IgorC @ Apr 11 2011, 16:40) The te...   Apr 13 2011, 04:42
|- - Garf   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 13 2011, 05:42) Hey al...   Apr 13 2011, 08:27
||- - IgorC   QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 13 2011, 04:27) One thi...   Apr 14 2011, 05:57
|- - C.R.Helmrich   Thanks, Garf, for the plot! And thanks, Christ...   Apr 13 2011, 22:46
|- - Garf   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Apr 13 2011, 23:46)...   Apr 13 2011, 22:57
||- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 13 2011, 23:57) From th...   Apr 13 2011, 23:06
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Apr 13 2011, 17:46)...   Apr 14 2011, 00:58
|- - Garf   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Apr 14 2011, 01:58) I do...   Apr 14 2011, 09:13
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 14 2011, 04:13) You are...   Apr 14 2011, 11:41
- - Garf   The result page is now updated with per-sample gra...   Apr 13 2011, 12:41
- - mixminus1   Thanks much to all for their work in both setting ...   Apr 13 2011, 14:55
|- - Garf   QUOTE (mixminus1 @ Apr 13 2011, 15:55) Th...   Apr 13 2011, 15:04
- - mixminus1   :facepalm: Good God... Thanks, Garf, I was scour...   Apr 13 2011, 15:15
- - romor   @Garf: can you please reupload results you posted ...   Apr 13 2011, 16:35
|- - Garf   QUOTE (romor @ Apr 13 2011, 17:35) @Garf:...   Apr 13 2011, 18:59
- - IgorC   AlexB, thank you for bitrate verification. I real...   Apr 13 2011, 17:12
- - pdq   Whether or not classical should be considered to b...   Apr 13 2011, 17:51
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (pdq @ Apr 13 2011, 13:51) Whether ...   Apr 13 2011, 18:01
|- - pdq   QUOTE (IgorC @ Apr 13 2011, 13:01) QUOTE ...   Apr 13 2011, 18:53
- - romor   file: http://people.xiph.org/~greg/opus/ha2011/2.....   Apr 13 2011, 19:28
|- - NullC   QUOTE (romor @ Apr 13 2011, 10:28) file: ...   Apr 13 2011, 19:53
- - IgorC   Bitrate verification on my set of albums: http:/...   Apr 13 2011, 21:45
|- - NullC   QUOTE (IgorC @ Apr 13 2011, 13:45) Bitrat...   Apr 21 2011, 19:15
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (NullC @ Apr 21 2011, 14:15) QUOTE ...   Apr 21 2011, 19:53
- - Garf   QUOTE Has anyone ever seriously blind-tested e.g. ...   Apr 14 2011, 00:10
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (Garf @ Apr 14 2011, 01:10) I'm...   Apr 14 2011, 10:46
- - .alexander.   The second graph seems to be consistent with ...   Apr 15 2011, 12:40
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (.alexander. @ Apr 15 2011, 07:40) ...   Apr 15 2011, 15:17
- - Xanikseo   QUOTE (IgorC @ Apr 13 2011, 21:45) Bitrat...   Apr 20 2011, 16:34
|- - Garf   QUOTE (Xanikseo @ Apr 20 2011, 17:34) Igo...   Apr 20 2011, 18:02
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (Xanikseo @ Apr 20 2011, 12:34) Igo...   Apr 20 2011, 18:19
|- - Zarggg   QUOTE (Xanikseo @ Apr 20 2011, 11:34) EDI...   Apr 20 2011, 19:09
- - Xanikseo   QUOTE (Zarggg @ Apr 20 2011, 19:09) QUOTE...   Apr 20 2011, 21:20
- - IgorC   NullC, h*tp://www.mediafire.com/?s7i9usu2qr27pcg ...   Apr 21 2011, 23:52
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