IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Closed TopicStart new topic
Apple Lossless vs FLAC: The better?
Antigen
post Mar 12 2011, 00:04
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 135
Joined: 21-July 09
Member No.: 71655



Hi to all,

a simple question:

- FLAC vs Apple Lossles what is the best? They are 100 % lossless format?

If I want to convert my actual FLAC collection into Apple Lossless without quality loss, is possibile? The tag remains?

Is better FLAC or Apple Lossles for audio backup?

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kornchild2002
post Mar 12 2011, 00:40
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 2078
Joined: 8-April 05
From: Cincinnati, OH
Member No.: 21277



They are both lossless audio formats, they wouldn't be called lossless if they weren't. You can convert between the two without loss of quality while preserving the track tags. It is up to you to determine which format is superior. There are some technical merits that FLAC has over ALAC. However, ALAC works natively with Apple hardware and software while third part support is growing. I went with ALAC simply because I have a bunch of iDevices and I wanted to manage my lossless files in iTunes. Others go with FLAC for their own reasons.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Antigen
post Mar 12 2011, 00:54
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 135
Joined: 21-July 09
Member No.: 71655



The same, I have iPod and Mac and i'm evaulating ALAC
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
SonicBooom!
post Mar 12 2011, 04:04
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 118
Joined: 16-February 11
Member No.: 88210



They're almost the same because they're both lossless, and transcoding FLAC to ALAC and vice-versa will not result in any loss of quality, hence, the word. I don't know about the tags, but audio quality remains the same. For backups, I'd rather use FLAC but for iPod users, it's recommended to use ALAC because it's made specifically for Apple products smile.gif


--------------------
sin(α) = v sound/v object = Mach No.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
[JAZ]
post Mar 12 2011, 15:51
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 1783
Joined: 24-June 02
From: Catalunya(Spain)
Member No.: 2383



More or less, what the others have said:

- If you *HAVE* to use ALAC, then be it (you found no better way to spend your money).
- If you don't have to use ALAC, FLAC has great support everywhere else out of the Apple ecosystem.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Billytheonion
post Mar 12 2011, 17:00
Post #6





Group: Members
Posts: 178
Joined: 25-May 10
Member No.: 80883



Why do people recommend FLAC over ALAC ? I haven't come across any software that doesn't support ALAC and it plays in iTunes unlike FLAC. Lossless makes no sense on portable devices.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
WonderSlug
post Mar 12 2011, 17:41
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 299
Joined: 6-February 08
From: San Diego, CA
Member No.: 51066



QUOTE (Billytheonion @ Mar 12 2011, 08:00) *
Why do people recommend FLAC over ALAC ? I haven't come across any software that doesn't support ALAC and it plays in iTunes unlike FLAC. Lossless makes no sense on portable devices.


1.) It's open source.

2.) It's supported natively on more hardware devices.

3.) There are plenty of people who don't use iTunes, and even downright despise it (like me). I use Floola for Windows to copy music to my iPod.


This post has been edited by WonderSlug: Mar 12 2011, 17:42
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Billytheonion
post Mar 12 2011, 18:06
Post #8





Group: Members
Posts: 178
Joined: 25-May 10
Member No.: 80883



1.) Most people haven't a clue what open Source is/means.

2.) Far more people own devices that can play ALAC and not FLAC.

3.) This has nothing to do if one uses iTunes or not.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DonP
post Mar 12 2011, 18:17
Post #9





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 1471
Joined: 11-February 03
From: Vermont
Member No.: 4955



QUOTE (Billytheonion @ Mar 12 2011, 11:00) *
Why do people recommend FLAC over ALAC ? I haven't come across any software that doesn't support ALAC and it plays in iTunes unlike FLAC. Lossless makes no sense on portable devices.


Well, then, it looks like ALAC is right for the space you occupy (itunes). I have no hardware or software that plays ALAC and not FLAC (other than itunes, which gets fired up once in a blue moon), and lots that play FLAC but not ALAC.

This post has been edited by DonP: Mar 12 2011, 18:18
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DonP
post Mar 12 2011, 18:25
Post #10





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 1471
Joined: 11-February 03
From: Vermont
Member No.: 4955



QUOTE (Billytheonion @ Mar 12 2011, 12:06) *
1.) Most people haven't a clue what open Source is/means.

Even if they don't know what open source means, the developers do and the result is more things can play it.

QUOTE
2.) Far more people own devices that can play ALAC and not FLAC.


Yes, there are more Ipods out there than anything else. There are more choices of things that play FLAC but not ALAC in both hardware and software.

QUOTE
3.) This has nothing to do if one uses iTunes or not.


That's the only software I know of that plays ALAC but not FLAC, and Ipod the only hardware. So yes, it has a lot to do with using itunes.

Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Billytheonion
post Mar 12 2011, 18:35
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 178
Joined: 25-May 10
Member No.: 80883



It's so much easier to find people who have software and devices that can play ALAC and not FLAC.

People use what they like i just can't see any reasons how FLAC would benefit the majority of people over ALAC

This post has been edited by Billytheonion: Mar 12 2011, 18:37
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
WonderSlug
post Mar 12 2011, 19:23
Post #12





Group: Members
Posts: 299
Joined: 6-February 08
From: San Diego, CA
Member No.: 51066



QUOTE (Billytheonion @ Mar 12 2011, 09:35) *
It's so much easier to find people who have software and devices that can play ALAC and not FLAC.

People use what they like i just can't see any reasons how FLAC would benefit the majority of people over ALAC


You go ahead and be happy in your own little ALAC world.

The rest of us will be happy using FLAC and other lossless codecs.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Wombat
post Mar 12 2011, 19:25
Post #13





Group: Members
Posts: 1033
Joined: 7-October 01
Member No.: 235



QUOTE (Billytheonion @ Mar 12 2011, 18:35) *
It's so much easier to find people who have software and devices that can play ALAC and not FLAC.

You may have a look at our recent ripping/encoding poll:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....;hl=poll%202011

And i like that most lossless music stores use flac and not ALAC.

Besides that it sucks that the software that can encode ALAC has to use a re-engineered code cause apple doesn´t give us users any software outside iTunes to do so.



Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
greynol
post Mar 12 2011, 20:26
Post #14





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 10000
Joined: 1-April 04
From: San Francisco
Member No.: 13167



QUOTE (Billytheonion @ Mar 12 2011, 09:06) *
2.) Far more people own devices that can play ALAC and not FLAC.

Tell that to all the people who have been streaming lossless to devices connected to their stereos two years before Apple was selling a competing product.


--------------------
I should publish a list of forum idiots.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
googlebot
post Mar 12 2011, 20:57
Post #15





Group: Members
Posts: 698
Joined: 6-March 10
Member No.: 78779



I remember trying to stream audio using netcat over 802.11B to an EPIA board connected to my stereo. It basically worked but was really also a hassle for day-to-day use. The first really setup & forget solution has been released by Apple about 7 years ago. It had digital and analog outputs and could be controlled right from iTunes, basically a flawless product. What came 2 years before that?

This post has been edited by googlebot: Mar 12 2011, 20:58
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pdq
post Mar 12 2011, 21:34
Post #16





Group: Members
Posts: 3402
Joined: 1-September 05
From: SE Pennsylvania
Member No.: 24233



QUOTE (googlebot @ Mar 12 2011, 15:57) *
I remember trying to stream audio using netcat over 802.11B to an EPIA board connected to my stereo. It basically worked but was really also a hassle for day-to-day use. The first really setup & forget solution has been released by Apple about 7 years ago. It had digital and analog outputs and could be controlled right from iTunes, basically a flawless product. What came 2 years before that?

Audiotron!
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DonP
post Mar 12 2011, 21:38
Post #17





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 1471
Joined: 11-February 03
From: Vermont
Member No.: 4955



QUOTE (googlebot @ Mar 12 2011, 14:57) *
The first really setup & forget solution has been released by Apple about 7 years ago. It had digital and analog outputs and could be controlled right from iTunes, basically a flawless product. What came 2 years before that?


jreceiver supported FLAC from 2002. Squeezebox had something lossless from 2003. They also could use lossless as the transpose target if your lossy format wasn't supported by the receiving end. They could be controlled either from the receiving box, IR remote, or a browser page (which could be on the server or something more portable)

ALAC was released 2004. I never had airport, so don't know if you had to have your server in the same room to conveniently control it.

This post has been edited by DonP: Mar 12 2011, 21:59
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pawelq
post Mar 12 2011, 21:39
Post #18





Group: Members
Posts: 541
Joined: 20-December 05
From: Springfield, VA
Member No.: 26522



QUOTE (Wombat @ Mar 12 2011, 13:25) *
You may have a look at our recent ripping/encoding poll:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....;hl=poll%202011


Obviously, an internet poll proves nothing. An internet poll conducted within this very special community proves, if I can say so, even less about the lossless codec usage in the general popualtion.


--------------------
Ceterum censeo, there should be an "%is_stop_after_current%".
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DonP
post Mar 12 2011, 21:57
Post #19





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 1471
Joined: 11-February 03
From: Vermont
Member No.: 4955



QUOTE (pawelq @ Mar 12 2011, 15:39) *
Obviously, an internet poll proves nothing. An internet poll conducted within this very special community proves, if I can say so, even less about the lossless codec usage in the general popualtion.


A poll in this community mostly gives you a concentration of people who do use lossless.

In the general digital music playing population you would (I think) find the majority of users have something (an Ipod and/or Itunes) capable of playing ALAC, but they either don't know what it is or have not decided to use it for any purpose.

If Apple had been either first with a lossless compression or first selling losslessly compressed music then ALAC would likely be the dominant format. As it is, they were kind of late to the game and came out with something not much different than what was already available.

This post has been edited by DonP: Mar 12 2011, 21:58
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Soap
post Mar 12 2011, 22:36
Post #20





Group: Members
Posts: 1015
Joined: 19-November 06
Member No.: 37767



http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=...&word2=ALAC

wink.gif


--------------------
Creature of habit.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
tuffy
post Mar 12 2011, 22:48
Post #21





Group: Members
Posts: 111
Joined: 20-August 07
Member No.: 46367



The advantages to ALAC are that it's widely supported in the Apple ecosystem and has more standardized metadata.

The advantages to FLAC are that it compresses slightly better on average, has very robust error protection, has integrated ReplayGain support and is widely supported in the open source ecosystem.

Which to use depends on which factors one's more interested in.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
greynol
post Mar 12 2011, 22:50
Post #22





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 10000
Joined: 1-April 04
From: San Francisco
Member No.: 13167



FLAC hardly has robust error protection; in fact, it barely has any at all (not that ALAC is any better and might very well be worse)

Nice site, Soap. biggrin.gif

EDIT: Noting the reply below, yes, "protection" was absolutely the wrong choice of word. wink.gif

This post has been edited by greynol: Mar 12 2011, 23:15


--------------------
I should publish a list of forum idiots.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
tuffy
post Mar 12 2011, 23:01
Post #23





Group: Members
Posts: 111
Joined: 20-August 07
Member No.: 46367



Perhaps error detection would've been a better choice of words. FLAC offers a frame header CRC, whole frame CRC and whole stream hash, which is good enough to detect single bit errors or file truncation and can be batch verified. ALAC offers no frame or stream verification of any kind, so the best one can hope for is that the premature end of the mdat atom might be detected, or that the decoder might trigger an error of some sort if you're lucky.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pawelq
post Mar 12 2011, 23:16
Post #24





Group: Members
Posts: 541
Joined: 20-December 05
From: Springfield, VA
Member No.: 26522



QUOTE (DonP @ Mar 12 2011, 15:57) *
QUOTE (pawelq @ Mar 12 2011, 15:39) *
Obviously, an internet poll proves nothing. An internet poll conducted within this very special community proves, if I can say so, even less about the lossless codec usage in the general popualtion.


A poll in this community mostly gives you a concentration of people who do use lossless.


To make the results of the poll applicable to the world out there, you would have to prove that there is no overrepresentation of FLAC (or ALAC) users here, compared to the general population of lossless users.

QUOTE (DonP @ Mar 12 2011, 15:57) *
If Apple had been either first with a lossless compression or first selling losslessly compressed music then ALAC would likely be the dominant format. As it is, they were kind of late to the game and came out with something not much different than what was already available.


Don't underestimate Apple. They were not first with mp3 players, tablets, smartphones.


--------------------
Ceterum censeo, there should be an "%is_stop_after_current%".
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DonP
post Mar 12 2011, 23:31
Post #25





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 1471
Joined: 11-February 03
From: Vermont
Member No.: 4955



QUOTE (pawelq @ Mar 12 2011, 17:16) *
Don't underestimate Apple. They were not first with mp3 players, tablets, smartphones.


Whether or not you took the bait on ipod, ipad, or iphone, it's clear there was bait. ALAC has no stylistic difference from the others. At least as visible to one outside the Apple world, they made no effort to market ALAC beyond putting it out as the one that goes with their other stuff. One wonders why they even bothered, as opposed to just adopting FLAC (unless ALAC includes DRM)

Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Closed TopicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th September 2014 - 03:13