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Classic Records DAD 24/96 disc conversion
omnihy63
post Mar 2 2011, 14:37
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Hello . This is my first post.

I have a couple of Classic Records DAD 24/96 discs. I would like to convert the files to WAV or FLAC or another format , which then I can make a regular Cd and download into I-Tunes.

I've gotten as far as extracting the songs/chapters into separate VOB files, using OSex. But with any program that I have used so far, any conversion results in white noise. I've tried ffmpegx, XLD, Audacity, mAC3dec, MAC the Ripper, you name it, the result is the same, white noise.

Looking at OSex, the audio file states that the audio is "unspecified audio ?? PCM 2ch 24bit 0khz" . What is that mean exactly? I tryed making PCM files instead of VOB files, but they come up as blank documents, with white noise.

I know that if this can be figured out, the result will be a CD that sounds better than the original CD issue, which sounds so lifeless and thin.

I can't believe that Classic Records is the only company in the whole world that can manufacture discs that can't be copied. Everything else can be copied, even Blu-ray.

Lastly, there has to be a workaround that is free. I don't want to pay 40 bucks for a program that I will only use two or three times, with no guarantee that it will work

Thank you in advance for any advice.

I'm on a iMac- OSX version 10.4.11;processor600MHz;Power PCG3
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db1989
post Mar 2 2011, 14:50
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I mean no offence, but this—
QUOTE
I can't believe that Classic Records is the only company in the whole world that can manufacture discs that can't be copied. Everything else can be copied, even Blu-ray.
—is because you’re doing it wrong. Clearly those applications do not support VOB files, so in order to obtain the audio data in a usable format you will need to find an application that either A: supports the VOB format, or B: can rip a DVD-A directly to WAV or FLAC.

QUOTE (omnihy63 @ Mar 2 2011, 13:37) *
I know that if this can be figured out, the result will be a CD that sounds better than the original CD issue, which sounds so lifeless and thin.
If you do, be sure to provide evidence for said deficiencies of the CD, as per ToS #8 (which you tacitly agreed to abide by upon registering).
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2Bdecided
post Mar 2 2011, 14:58
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QUOTE (dv1989 @ Mar 2 2011, 13:50) *
QUOTE (omnihy63 @ Mar 2 2011, 13:37) *
I know that if this can be figured out, the result will be a CD that sounds better than the original CD issue, which sounds so lifeless and thin.
If you do, be sure to provide evidence for said deficiencies of the CD, as per ToS #8 (which you tacitly agreed to abide by upon registering).
Apart from the typical unfounded audiophile belief that 24/96 must sound better than 16/44.1, and signing up to this forum without reading the rules, there's a further classic here: the assumption that an audiophile record company took their 24/96 master and converted it to CD in some sub-optimal way, and that this person will now do the job "properly" using audacity.

Even if there was an audible difference between 24/96 and 16/44.1 (totally unproven), the proposed approach makes no sense at all. Unless the commercial CD release was intentionally crippled in some way.


I can't help on a Mac.

<REMOVED CONTENT>

There is software to demux a VOB (again, I only know windows solutions), but that's doing things in two steps when one will do fine.

If you do get it working, it's still a pain because AFAICT there is/was no free software to automatically split the tracks and name/tag the resulting files. You have to do that manually, or buy some software.

Cheers,
David.

This post has been edited by greynol: Mar 2 2011, 19:44
Reason for edit: Removed potential TOS #9 violation
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andy o
post Mar 2 2011, 15:06
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So these are just glorified DVD Video discs, which have 24/96 LPCM stereo audio right? I don't think your problem is with encryption, but probably the programs you're using to rip don't support ripping this audio, probably only Dolby Digital/DTS.

Word of caution though, I'm pretty sure decryption discussion is not allowed here.
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omnihy63
post Mar 2 2011, 15:48
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Thanks everyone for your responses.

I did not know that talking about decrypting Audio was not allowed on this forum. I was led to the forum after a suggestion from another forum.

If done right,24/96 discs do sound better than 16/44 CD's. It depends on how they were mastered.The original CD in question ( Sam Phillips - The Indescribable Wow) released by Virgin-EMI, was not mastered from the master tape, so it sounds terrible. The vinyl sounds better. The Classic DAD (not DVD-Audio) is clearly better than the original CD, and if I ever figure out how produce an AIFF or WAV derived from the 24/96, the result will be a better sounding disc.

I'm going through this because quite frankly, A regular CD or I-tunes ARE more convenient than DVD. "Give me convenience or give me death"

Thanks again
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andy o
post Mar 2 2011, 15:51
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You might wanna review the terms of service again, esp. #8 like they said above.
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db1989
post Mar 2 2011, 15:58
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QUOTE (omnihy63 @ Mar 2 2011, 14:48) *
If done right,24/96 discs do sound better than 16/44 CD's. It depends on how they were mastered.The original CD in question ( Sam Phillips - The Indescribable Wow) released by Virgin-EMI, was not mastered from the master tape, so it sounds terrible. The vinyl sounds better. The Classic DAD (not DVD-Audio) is clearly better than the original CD, and if I ever figure out how produce an AIFF or WAV derived from the 24/96, the result will be a better sounding disc.
You effectively said “If done right, well-mastered CDs do sound better than badly mastered CDs”. In contrast, what was being disputed was the claim that the higher-resolution format sounds better by virtue of its additional bandwidth.

I have little doubt that some cynical publishers use different masters for their CDs and higher-resolution formats in order to trick consumers into preferring the latter (more expensive) medium, but I also have little doubt that few listeners could distinguish between properly converted CD-quality and 24 bit / 96 kHz versions of the same source material.
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dhromed
post Mar 2 2011, 16:20
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QUOTE (omnihy63 @ Mar 2 2011, 15:48) *
If done right,24/96 discs do sound better than 16/44 CD's. It depends on how they were mastered.


Just to be sure we're on the same page and to prevent unnecessary arguments:

If you take a superior master that just so happens to be at 24/96, and then properly downsample to 16/44 for a Redbook CD, your new CD is going to sound exactly the same as the 24/96 version, and exactly the same as a properly mastered CD.

i.o.w superior audio quality —if any— is not directly related to the larger numbers.
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omnihy63
post Mar 2 2011, 16:40
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I don't have the technical capability to compare and contrast Audio , I only have my own ears. Knowing this particular recording, it's clear what sounds better. It is in the mastering ( and authoring) I'm sure if Classic Records produced a regular 16/44 CD ( which I wish they did), it would sound better because they care about the product they are producing. They cared enough to release a re-mastered version of a rather obscure record, because maybe they like the music.

It is also clear that major record companies are greedy; they are responsible for releasing inferior sounding product. EMI, Warner, Sony, they all did it. You don't need to analyze waveforms to prove this. Just listen. But that is another discussion for another time

I guess I'm on the wrong forum to discuss this problem. But thank you all for your responses
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DVDdoug
post Mar 2 2011, 20:14
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QUOTE (omnihy63 @ Mar 2 2011, 07:40) *
I guess I'm on the wrong forum to discuss this problem. But thank you all for your responses
Back to the original issue, if you're still around...

(I'm a PC user, so I can't help you with the tools.)

I believe you have a hybrid or universal disc that plays on DVD-Audio players as well as regular DVD players -

VOB files are regular audio/video files in the VIDEO_TS folder on a regular VIDEO DVD.
This makes the disc playable in a regular DVD player. The audio could be AC3, LPCM, or DTS, or any combination as you find on any normal DVD. (The "video" might be a still image, and It might be simply a black screen.) If you can decrypt the file and extract the audio from a normal DVD, you should be able to extract the audio from this DVD.

DVD-Audio is in VOA files in the AUDIO_TS folder. On a regular DVD, this folder is empty. Most DVD players won't play DVD-Audio. (I don't have a DVD-Audio player.) The encrytpion on the DVD-Audio is different/stronger and there are fewer tools for cracking the copy protection.

I've never attempted ripping DVD-Audio, but for regular DVDs, I use a 4-step process and 3 different tools. (There are all-in-one programs for ripping the audio from a DVD... This is how I do it.)

1. Decrypt & copy the DVD to hard-drive (with illegal software which I don't discuss in public).

2. Convert the VOB files to a single MPEG-2 file. This might not be necessary if you have no video and all of your audio fits into a single VOB file. But for example, with concert DVDs the split between VOB files is typically in the middle of a song. I do this with my video editing software, but there are other tools that can do it.

3. Extract the audio to one big WAV file. Again, I use my video editor but there are other tools. Audacity can probably do it.

4. Split the WAV file into individual songs. And for concert DVDs, fade-in and fade-out the applause/crowd noise. I do this with my audio editor.


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bryant
post Mar 2 2011, 21:06
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QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Mar 2 2011, 11:14) *
I believe you have a hybrid or universal disc that plays on DVD-Audio players as well as regular DVD players -

No, these Classic Records DAD discs are vanilla DVD-V discs with a 24/96 LPCM audio track (and no video generally except a still).

The hybrid ones are called HDADs and generally have 24/192 on the DVD-A side.

I have this Sam Phillips disc and agree it sounds good (although I never heard any other versions).
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Apesbrain
post Mar 2 2011, 21:55
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@omnihy63, on another forum you said the extracted VOB files "play fine in my VLC player". Have you tried using VLC to convert the files?

Here is a tutorial on the basic idea:
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/2719/how-to...o-mp3-with-vlc/
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2Bdecided
post Mar 3 2011, 12:11
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QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Mar 2 2011, 19:14) *
1. Decrypt & copy the DVD to hard-drive (with illegal software which I don't discuss in public).
As I mentioned (sorry - forgot about TOS 9 - thank you for your careful edit greynol) - the original piece of illegal software to do this job will go straight to wav if you ask it, so all these other steps are not needed.

btw, IIRC there's a completely legal way of doing this. IIRC these original DADs (i.e. standard DVDs with 24/96 audio) allow the audio to be sent as-is from the SPDIF output of the DVD player (if it supports 24/96 via SPDIF). So you just play them on such a DVD player, and hook it up to the digital input of a 24/96 bit-perfect capable sound card. Real time bit-perfect digital copy. You need to split+name tracks of course.

I could be wrong. It's over a decade since I did this, but I'm sure that's how it worked. e.g.
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=232211

I think 24/96 SPDIF is blocked on most (all?) DVD-As, but not those earlier DADs. Not sure if it can be blocked on DVD-Vs. Probably. But the DADs I tried allowed it.

Cheers,
David.
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