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Windows 7's resampling sucks, How can it be improved?
googlebot
post Feb 9 2011, 20:30
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Playback over WASAPI must match the sample rate of the output device. Thus applications must supply their own resampling if the playback rate does not match. Most applications don't do this but just employ MME or DirectSound, which provide transparent resampling for non-matching rates.

Since some of my content is 44.1 kHz and some 48 kHz I used to set the output rate to 192 kHz so that all audio had to be upsampled. With good software resampling and a cheap onboard codec this could, in theory, even improve the overall result. But the opposite was true. Today I couldn't longer ignore the impression that the resampled output sounded somewhat muffled and did some measurements.

You can view the result here. The upsampled output (44.1 -> 192 kHz) suffers from quite a HF roll-off in comparison to pure 44.1 kHz output.

In Windows XP the SRC quality could be adjusted. I can't find anything comparable in Windows 7. Does anyone know more?

This post has been edited by googlebot: Feb 9 2011, 20:33
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SebastianG
post Feb 10 2011, 11:28
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I also don't think -1 dB at 17 kHz and -3 dB at 18.25 kHz makes a difference in real listening situations. The early and slow rolloff has also advantages in theory (possibly lower delay, computationally cheaper).
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Notat
post Feb 10 2011, 16:43
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QUOTE (SebastianG @ Feb 10 2011, 03:28) *
I also don't think -1 dB at 17 kHz and -3 dB at 18.25 kHz makes a difference in real listening situations. The early and slow rolloff has also advantages in theory (possibly lower delay, computationally cheaper).

Such anti-aliasing filtering is necessary in a sample-rate and digital-to-analog conversion. As Sebastian indicates, there are trade offs in filter design. You are comparing Microsoft's software filter to the hardware filter in the DAC. They are implemented differently and it is not surprising that you can measure and hear a difference. Have you done any measurements on XP to confirm that there's a regression in Win 7. I would not assume that removal of user settings implies reduced performance. It could alternatively mean that overall performance was improved to the extent that user settings are no longer necessary.
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Woodinville
post Nov 5 2011, 08:32
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QUOTE (Notat @ Feb 10 2011, 08:43) *
Have you done any measurements on XP to confirm that there's a regression in Win 7.


XP and Vista (and I believe W7) are so dissimilar that there is no means to compare them. One is fixed, one is float, one uses a polynomial resampler, the other a dedicated, high-quality resampler (unless you provide many, many inputs in which case it will drop the quality due to the demand on the CPU).

That is, if you use new, rather than legacy, system inputs.

This post has been edited by Woodinville: Nov 5 2011, 08:33


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J. D. (jj) Johnston
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Posts in this topic
- googlebot   Windows 7's resampling sucks   Feb 9 2011, 20:30
- - [JAZ]   A) WASAPI doesn't force any player to resampl...   Feb 9 2011, 20:41
|- - googlebot   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Feb 9 2011, 20:41)...   Feb 9 2011, 21:14
- - saratoga   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 9 2011, 14:30) Sin...   Feb 9 2011, 21:56
|- - googlebot   It's hard to ABX the different paths directly ...   Feb 9 2011, 22:11
- - Roseval   WASAPI in exclusive mode send the output straight ...   Feb 9 2011, 23:04
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (Roseval @ Feb 9 2011, 23:04) WASAP...   Feb 9 2011, 23:11
- - Cavaille   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Feb 9 2011, 20:41)...   Feb 9 2011, 23:43
|- - dv1989   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Feb 9 2011, 22:43) QUOT...   Feb 10 2011, 00:10
- - [JAZ]   Are you telling me that when I have set 24bits 96K...   Feb 9 2011, 23:49
|- - googlebot   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Feb 9 2011, 23:49)...   Feb 10 2011, 00:07
- - C.R.Helmrich   http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st...   Feb 9 2011, 23:50
- - SCOTU   Is there any reason the OS' resampling even ma...   Feb 9 2011, 23:51
- - soulsearchingsun   Did you take the effects of different recontructio...   Feb 9 2011, 23:56
- - googlebot   I'll be away until tomorrow night. If you guys...   Feb 10 2011, 00:25
- - GeSomeone   @googlebot , I do not fully understand why you...   Feb 10 2011, 00:42
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Feb 10 2011, 00:42) I ...   Feb 11 2011, 00:00
- - Cavaille   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 10 2011, 00:07) Ho...   Feb 10 2011, 00:47
- - googlebot   @GeSomeone That's possible. It didn't test...   Feb 10 2011, 00:50
- - SebastianG   I also don't think -1 dB at 17 kHz and -3 dB a...   Feb 10 2011, 11:28
|- - Notat   QUOTE (SebastianG @ Feb 10 2011, 03:28) I...   Feb 10 2011, 16:43
|- - googlebot   I am well familiar with the technical details of r...   Feb 10 2011, 20:46
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (Notat @ Feb 10 2011, 08:43) Have y...   Nov 5 2011, 08:32
- - soulsearchingsun   QUOTE (soulsearchingsun @ Feb 9 2011, 23...   Feb 10 2011, 11:45
- - lvqcl   http://blogs.msdn.com/b/matthew_van_eerde/...-pull...   Feb 10 2011, 22:17
|- - Greg   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Feb 10 2011, 13:17) http:/...   Apr 17 2011, 08:51
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (Greg @ Apr 17 2011, 11:51) How exa...   Apr 17 2011, 12:34
|- - Greg   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Apr 17 2011, 03:34) QUOTE ...   Apr 17 2011, 19:30
- - googlebot   Interesting. Looks like it should, just not like w...   Feb 10 2011, 23:32
- - [JAZ]   Couple of things... It looks like foobar2000 impl...   Feb 11 2011, 01:05
- - googlebot   Thank you for the update [JAZ] and my apologies fo...   Feb 11 2011, 01:53
- - googlebot   The problem is mostly solved. It seems to be a rea...   Feb 11 2011, 03:20
|- - soulsearchingsun   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 11 2011, 03:20) Th...   Feb 11 2011, 13:05
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (soulsearchingsun @ Feb 11 2011, 13...   Feb 11 2011, 13:09
- - googlebot   Maybe we can get an additional confirmation? Perso...   Feb 11 2011, 13:13
|- - soulsearchingsun   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 11 2011, 13:13) Ma...   Feb 11 2011, 13:20
- - googlebot   Full stop. It was just RMAA that fucked up. And wi...   Feb 11 2011, 14:19
- - Cavaille   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 11 2011, 14:19) Fu...   Feb 11 2011, 15:15
- - greynol   What about your initial suspicion about muffled so...   Feb 11 2011, 19:51
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 11 2011, 19:51) What...   Feb 11 2011, 20:27
- - hellokeith   Googlebot, This thread was actually helpful, in t...   Feb 13 2011, 04:06
- - jaro1   This area has also my interest, however the proble...   Apr 17 2011, 11:20
- - lvqcl   I don't have it, but it was like the attached ...   Apr 17 2011, 19:57
- - whitejason   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 9 2011, 20:30) Pla...   Jun 27 2011, 18:41
- - meeky   Not sure if this is related, but Microsoft have co...   Nov 5 2011, 07:05
- - lvqcl   from the abovementioned thread: QUOTE Media Founda...   Nov 5 2011, 07:36
|- - hellokeith   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Nov 5 2011, 00:36) Media F...   Nov 5 2011, 10:01
|- - benski   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Nov 5 2011, 02:36) from th...   Nov 6 2011, 18:24
- - lvqcl   http://blog.szynalski.com/2009/11/17/an-au...-7/#c...   Nov 5 2011, 10:47
- - C.R.Helmrich   I just checked the optional updates available for ...   Nov 5 2011, 11:28
|- - Batman321   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Nov 5 2011, 05:28) ...   Nov 5 2011, 19:01
- - Roseval   I'm afraid audio has priority zero at Microsof...   Nov 5 2011, 13:33
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (Roseval @ Nov 5 2011, 14:33) I...   Nov 5 2011, 21:09
- - Roseval   There are a couple of media players for OSX doing...   Nov 6 2011, 10:59
|- - Juha   So, you need dedicated playback software for to do...   Nov 6 2011, 11:52
||- - bennetng   I have to agree that win7's resampling has som...   Nov 6 2011, 13:11
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (Roseval @ Nov 6 2011, 11:59) There...   Nov 6 2011, 15:19
- - Roseval   Correct. iTunes doesn't support automatic samp...   Nov 6 2011, 13:03
- - LordWarlock   For whoever it may interest, there is now a hotfix...   Mar 9 2012, 19:49
|- - C.R.Helmrich   Thanks a million, Lord! Trying it right now. E...   Mar 9 2012, 21:21
|- - extrabigmehdi   QUOTE (LordWarlock @ Mar 9 2012, 18:49) F...   Mar 10 2012, 00:07
||- - andy o   QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Mar 9 2012, 16:07)...   Jun 20 2012, 00:34
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (LordWarlock @ Mar 9 2012, 10:49) F...   Mar 10 2012, 01:51
|- - markanini   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Mar 10 2012, 02:51) ...   Jun 20 2012, 06:41
- - hellokeith   Why a hotfix and not an update?   Mar 10 2012, 10:17
- - db1989   Cross-linking for future reference: “Windows 7/200...   Aug 29 2012, 18:22


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