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Windows 7's resampling sucks, How can it be improved?
googlebot
post Feb 9 2011, 20:30
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Playback over WASAPI must match the sample rate of the output device. Thus applications must supply their own resampling if the playback rate does not match. Most applications don't do this but just employ MME or DirectSound, which provide transparent resampling for non-matching rates.

Since some of my content is 44.1 kHz and some 48 kHz I used to set the output rate to 192 kHz so that all audio had to be upsampled. With good software resampling and a cheap onboard codec this could, in theory, even improve the overall result. But the opposite was true. Today I couldn't longer ignore the impression that the resampled output sounded somewhat muffled and did some measurements.

You can view the result here. The upsampled output (44.1 -> 192 kHz) suffers from quite a HF roll-off in comparison to pure 44.1 kHz output.

In Windows XP the SRC quality could be adjusted. I can't find anything comparable in Windows 7. Does anyone know more?

This post has been edited by googlebot: Feb 9 2011, 20:33
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[JAZ]
post Feb 9 2011, 23:49
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Are you telling me that when I have set 24bits 96Khz in Sounds, and use Wasapi output in foobar2000 to play a 44Khz file, the wasapi driver in foobar is doing its own resampling to 96Khz without me knowing it?

The post you gave is from 2005, and as it can be read in it, not even beta 2 of Windows Vista was released. Also, it is not explicit if he was talking about Wasapi in general, or specifically about exclusive mode. (Or even if exclusive mode was the only mode that was to be made available at that time)

Oh, and btw, i know what WASAPI exclusive mode is. I'm developing an output driver for my application which uses that.


I still don't understand how did you do that.


Win 192 -> analog(?) -> OSX 96Khz -> something -> RMAA 44Khz
Win 44 -> analog(?) -> OSX 96Khz -> something -> RMAA 44Khz

QUOTE
The difference is at most 2dB, where it matters,
So... where it matters is at 18Khz? If you say so...

This post has been edited by [JAZ]: Feb 9 2011, 23:55
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googlebot
post Feb 10 2011, 00:07
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QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Feb 9 2011, 23:49) *

Are you telling me that when I have set 24bits 96Khz in Sounds, and use Wasapi output in foobar2000 to play a 44Khz file, the wasapi driver in foobar is doing its own resampling to 96Khz without me knowing it?

The post you gave is from 2005, and as it can be read in it, not even beta 2 of Windows Vista was released. Also, it is not explicit if he was talking about Wasapi in general, or specifically about exclusive mode. (Or even if exclusive mode was the only mode that was to be made available at that time)


I posted a link to the current MSDN documentation an it is telling you exactly that.

QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Feb 9 2011, 23:49) *

Oh, and btw, i know what WASAPI exclusive mode is. I'm developing an output driver for my application which uses that.


Then I wonder how you can write sentences like "One has to resample only if it uses exclusive mode", which is simply false according to the past and current developer documentation.

QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Feb 9 2011, 23:49) *

I still don't understand how did you do that.

Win 192 -> analog(?) -> OSX 96Khz -> something -> RMAA 44Khz
Win 44 -> analog(?) -> OSX 96Khz -> something -> RMAA 44Khz


It's really no black magic:

RMAA (44.1 kHz) -> DirectSound -> DA (44.1 kHz) -> Line Out (PC) -> Line In (Mac) -> AD (96 kHz) -> WAV -> RMAA Analyzer
RMAA (44.1 kHz) -> DirectSound -> DA ( 192 kHz) -> Line Out (PC) -> Line In (Mac) -> AD (96 kHz) -> WAV -> RMAA Analyzer


QUOTE (Cavaille @ Feb 9 2011, 23:43) *
Figuratively speaking, WASAPI is nothing more but a revamped XP Audio Kernel with a few added traits ASIO had established.


How do you base such claims. The audio system has undergone a huge rewrite. ASIO isn't faster than WaveRT and there is a nice, modular architecture for any additionally needed features.

This post has been edited by googlebot: Feb 10 2011, 00:28
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Posts in this topic
- googlebot   Windows 7's resampling sucks   Feb 9 2011, 20:30
- - [JAZ]   A) WASAPI doesn't force any player to resampl...   Feb 9 2011, 20:41
|- - googlebot   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Feb 9 2011, 20:41)...   Feb 9 2011, 21:14
- - saratoga   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 9 2011, 14:30) Sin...   Feb 9 2011, 21:56
|- - googlebot   It's hard to ABX the different paths directly ...   Feb 9 2011, 22:11
- - Roseval   WASAPI in exclusive mode send the output straight ...   Feb 9 2011, 23:04
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (Roseval @ Feb 9 2011, 23:04) WASAP...   Feb 9 2011, 23:11
- - Cavaille   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Feb 9 2011, 20:41)...   Feb 9 2011, 23:43
|- - dv1989   QUOTE (Cavaille @ Feb 9 2011, 22:43) QUOT...   Feb 10 2011, 00:10
- - [JAZ]   Are you telling me that when I have set 24bits 96K...   Feb 9 2011, 23:49
|- - googlebot   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Feb 9 2011, 23:49)...   Feb 10 2011, 00:07
- - C.R.Helmrich   http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st...   Feb 9 2011, 23:50
- - SCOTU   Is there any reason the OS' resampling even ma...   Feb 9 2011, 23:51
- - soulsearchingsun   Did you take the effects of different recontructio...   Feb 9 2011, 23:56
- - googlebot   I'll be away until tomorrow night. If you guys...   Feb 10 2011, 00:25
- - GeSomeone   @googlebot , I do not fully understand why you...   Feb 10 2011, 00:42
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Feb 10 2011, 00:42) I ...   Feb 11 2011, 00:00
- - Cavaille   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 10 2011, 00:07) Ho...   Feb 10 2011, 00:47
- - googlebot   @GeSomeone That's possible. It didn't test...   Feb 10 2011, 00:50
- - SebastianG   I also don't think -1 dB at 17 kHz and -3 dB a...   Feb 10 2011, 11:28
|- - Notat   QUOTE (SebastianG @ Feb 10 2011, 03:28) I...   Feb 10 2011, 16:43
|- - googlebot   I am well familiar with the technical details of r...   Feb 10 2011, 20:46
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (Notat @ Feb 10 2011, 08:43) Have y...   Nov 5 2011, 08:32
- - soulsearchingsun   QUOTE (soulsearchingsun @ Feb 9 2011, 23...   Feb 10 2011, 11:45
- - lvqcl   http://blogs.msdn.com/b/matthew_van_eerde/...-pull...   Feb 10 2011, 22:17
|- - Greg   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Feb 10 2011, 13:17) http:/...   Apr 17 2011, 08:51
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (Greg @ Apr 17 2011, 11:51) How exa...   Apr 17 2011, 12:34
|- - Greg   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Apr 17 2011, 03:34) QUOTE ...   Apr 17 2011, 19:30
- - googlebot   Interesting. Looks like it should, just not like w...   Feb 10 2011, 23:32
- - [JAZ]   Couple of things... It looks like foobar2000 impl...   Feb 11 2011, 01:05
- - googlebot   Thank you for the update [JAZ] and my apologies fo...   Feb 11 2011, 01:53
- - googlebot   The problem is mostly solved. It seems to be a rea...   Feb 11 2011, 03:20
|- - soulsearchingsun   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 11 2011, 03:20) Th...   Feb 11 2011, 13:05
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (soulsearchingsun @ Feb 11 2011, 13...   Feb 11 2011, 13:09
- - googlebot   Maybe we can get an additional confirmation? Perso...   Feb 11 2011, 13:13
|- - soulsearchingsun   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 11 2011, 13:13) Ma...   Feb 11 2011, 13:20
- - googlebot   Full stop. It was just RMAA that fucked up. And wi...   Feb 11 2011, 14:19
- - Cavaille   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 11 2011, 14:19) Fu...   Feb 11 2011, 15:15
- - greynol   What about your initial suspicion about muffled so...   Feb 11 2011, 19:51
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 11 2011, 19:51) What...   Feb 11 2011, 20:27
- - hellokeith   Googlebot, This thread was actually helpful, in t...   Feb 13 2011, 04:06
- - jaro1   This area has also my interest, however the proble...   Apr 17 2011, 11:20
- - lvqcl   I don't have it, but it was like the attached ...   Apr 17 2011, 19:57
- - whitejason   QUOTE (googlebot @ Feb 9 2011, 20:30) Pla...   Jun 27 2011, 18:41
- - meeky   Not sure if this is related, but Microsoft have co...   Nov 5 2011, 07:05
- - lvqcl   from the abovementioned thread: QUOTE Media Founda...   Nov 5 2011, 07:36
|- - hellokeith   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Nov 5 2011, 00:36) Media F...   Nov 5 2011, 10:01
|- - benski   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Nov 5 2011, 02:36) from th...   Nov 6 2011, 18:24
- - lvqcl   http://blog.szynalski.com/2009/11/17/an-au...-7/#c...   Nov 5 2011, 10:47
- - C.R.Helmrich   I just checked the optional updates available for ...   Nov 5 2011, 11:28
|- - Batman321   QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Nov 5 2011, 05:28) ...   Nov 5 2011, 19:01
- - Roseval   I'm afraid audio has priority zero at Microsof...   Nov 5 2011, 13:33
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (Roseval @ Nov 5 2011, 14:33) I...   Nov 5 2011, 21:09
- - Roseval   There are a couple of media players for OSX doing...   Nov 6 2011, 10:59
|- - Juha   So, you need dedicated playback software for to do...   Nov 6 2011, 11:52
||- - bennetng   I have to agree that win7's resampling has som...   Nov 6 2011, 13:11
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (Roseval @ Nov 6 2011, 11:59) There...   Nov 6 2011, 15:19
- - Roseval   Correct. iTunes doesn't support automatic samp...   Nov 6 2011, 13:03
- - LordWarlock   For whoever it may interest, there is now a hotfix...   Mar 9 2012, 19:49
|- - C.R.Helmrich   Thanks a million, Lord! Trying it right now. E...   Mar 9 2012, 21:21
|- - extrabigmehdi   QUOTE (LordWarlock @ Mar 9 2012, 18:49) F...   Mar 10 2012, 00:07
||- - andy o   QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Mar 9 2012, 16:07)...   Jun 20 2012, 00:34
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (LordWarlock @ Mar 9 2012, 10:49) F...   Mar 10 2012, 01:51
|- - markanini   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Mar 10 2012, 02:51) ...   Jun 20 2012, 06:41
- - hellokeith   Why a hotfix and not an update?   Mar 10 2012, 10:17
- - db1989   Cross-linking for future reference: “Windows 7/200...   Aug 29 2012, 18:22


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