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CELT 0.9.1 is out!, Help wanted
jmvalin
post Nov 16 2010, 02:56
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Xiph.org Speex developer


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Hi,

I'd like to announce CELT version 0.9.1. There have been many quality enhancements since 0.8.x and even more so since the last version announced on HA. You can get it from the CELT website. Also, CELT is now a component of the Opus codec, which is in the process of being standardized by the IETF as a lossy audio codec for interactive applications.

Also, for those who would like to help, we are looking for volunteers to help tune the codec. The bit-stream is (finally) about to be frozen, so any quality improvements we can get before then is useful. No highly specialized skills required, just good critical listening abilities. As a first round, I'd be interested in comments and rankings of the following four audio files:

fileA.wav
fileB.wav
fileC.wav
fileD.wav

The bit-rate is fairly low (64 kb/s), so artefacts are easy to hear. This is the original (uncompressed) file. I'm interested in a quality ranking of all these four files (especially the ones that sound similar). I'll reveal the contents of these files after people have responded.
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sauvage78
post Feb 5 2011, 06:20
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One of the reason why I wait for a CLI encoder/decoder to test CELT is because I have a pack of around 50 supposed killer samples that were uploaded by other ABXers on HA & that I need to test in order to know which one I can or cannot ABX personnaly. So actually I cannot really tell you what I will test or not (other than the samples I used in my first test). Before I would even start testing CELT there would be a first round of samples selection. Most likely I will test these 50 samples on aotuv 96-128Kbps & select those which are abnormally bad for the bitrate, only then will I test those samples on CELT. In the end I will only publish result for those I am 100% sure that I can ABX (A handfull). I am not the guy trying to ABX randomly selected average music on average bitrate, IMHO it is useless. I will stress the codec to the maximum.

Also I don't want to be tied to your release timing, in the past I already tried to help lossywav development & I stopped because each time I published some ABX results Nick.C instantly published a new lossywav version & it was a neverending game. (It was interesting in the beginning but it is tiring & I get bored in the end).
Nowaday I don't want to help any lossy codec for development as actually I simply don't use lossy anymore (except Nero aac for blu-ray).
If you release a CLI encoder/decoder, sooner or later, I will very likely test CELT by curiosity, but not because you asked me. This will happen naturally just because it is interesting to test how all lossy codecs evolved every year (or ... two years nowadays). So this is also one of the reason why I didn't test CELT again so far, both nero aac & aotuv development have been almost frozen since my test (there were only very minor update), & I think that except for CELT my old test results are still overall valid, which is why I haven't updated it. A multi-codec test with lot of code move is much more exciting than a single codec test, currently the lack of updates from competitors doesn't help to motivate me testing CELT.

Sorry, I don't really care if it would be the right time to test CELT just because there will be a bitstream freeze. Also I cannot promise that I will do it instantly as you releases binaries (in the past already I promised some listening test to Nick.C that I never did). ABXing is a boring task (specially if you don't use the codec yourself) & I will do it when I fell in the mood for it. All I can say is that if you would have regulary released binaries it's a long time I would already have re-tested it.

Sorry if it sound annoying, ABXing is just way more enjoyable for me, if it's independant & free.


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IgorC
post Feb 5 2011, 06:34
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QUOTE (sauvage78 @ Feb 5 2011, 02:20) *
Sorry if it sound annoying, ABXing is just way more enjoyable for me, if it's independant & free.


I can't disagree.
One should test on his own music. The music that you listen and only you can provide some interesting feedback on the music that you know how to listen.

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Posts in this topic
- jmvalin   CELT 0.9.1 is out!   Nov 16 2010, 02:56
- - punkrockdude   I think, after several listenings, that A sounds b...   Nov 19 2010, 19:18
- - Primius   In file A i noticed warbling distortion on guitars...   Nov 20 2010, 00:21
- - IgorC   logs h*tp://www.mediafire.com/?7ed142tcipntet1   Nov 21 2010, 02:25
- - jmvalin   Thanks very much guys. I guess I should start by t...   Nov 21 2010, 03:45
- - IgorC   logs h*tp://www.mediafire.com/?t8ko84f34bz8b5f Th...   Nov 22 2010, 20:32
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (IgorC @ Nov 23 2010, 05:32) The ...   Nov 23 2010, 02:16
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Nov 22 2010, 23:16) Than...   Nov 23 2010, 04:20
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (IgorC @ Nov 23 2010, 12:20) QUOTE ...   Nov 23 2010, 05:19
- - IgorC   All right, I will test fileL later. There was an...   Nov 23 2010, 03:38
- - IgorC   Sample I is still preferable but there is no stati...   Nov 27 2010, 04:51
- - IgorC   Description of artifacts. 1st sample. Samples H a...   Nov 28 2010, 05:00
|- - jmvalin   Thanks again for taking the time to listen to thos...   Dec 8 2010, 15:29
- - IgorC   What encoders did you used for Vorbis and HE-AAC? ...   Dec 8 2010, 20:37
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (IgorC @ Dec 9 2010, 04:37) What en...   Dec 9 2010, 02:25
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Dec 9 2010, 10:25) Regar...   Dec 9 2010, 02:36
- - IgorC   Chris has made tremendous work on compilation of ...   Dec 9 2010, 03:51
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (IgorC @ Dec 9 2010, 11:51) Chris h...   Dec 9 2010, 06:01
- - IgorC   Logs h*tp://www.mediafire.com/?c54du2c2b95mjsn Ma...   Dec 9 2010, 05:07
|- - jmvalin   Thanks again for the results. I'll investigate...   Dec 9 2010, 14:47
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Dec 9 2010, 22:47) Thank...   Dec 9 2010, 21:31
- - IgorC   Sample X did better on speech but still has low fr...   Dec 10 2010, 04:30
|- - jmvalin   Wow, thanks very much for all these results. I...   Dec 10 2010, 15:38
|- - SebastianG   Hi Jean-Marc, I just skimmed through some parts o...   Dec 10 2010, 16:10
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (SebastianG @ Dec 11 2010, 00:10) I...   Dec 10 2010, 19:34
|- - SebastianG   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Dec 10 2010, 19:34) QUOT...   Dec 10 2010, 20:40
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (SebastianG @ Dec 11 2010, 05:40) I...   Dec 10 2010, 20:48
- - IgorC   Jean-Marc, How does CELT scale with higher bitrat...   Dec 10 2010, 19:01
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (IgorC @ Dec 11 2010, 03:01) How do...   Dec 10 2010, 19:25
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (IgorC @ Dec 10 2010, 13:01) How do...   Feb 15 2011, 02:04
- - jmvalin   OK, so I've worked a bit on improving some of ...   Dec 10 2010, 23:36
- - IgorC   Jean-Marc, What do you plan for test of CELT? If...   Dec 13 2010, 22:01
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (IgorC @ Dec 13 2010, 16:01) What d...   Dec 13 2010, 22:25
- - IgorC   Jean-Marc, I see that version 0.10.0 has been rel...   Dec 24 2010, 00:34
|- - NullC   QUOTE (IgorC @ Dec 23 2010, 16:34) Jean-M...   Dec 24 2010, 02:02
- - IgorC   The differences are small. The results with HD650...   Dec 24 2010, 19:35
|- - C.R.Helmrich   QUOTE (IgorC @ Dec 24 2010, 20:35) Fatboy...   Dec 25 2010, 21:23
- - IgorC   Hi, Chris. Actually the question was about the po...   Dec 26 2010, 04:32
- - IgorC   I think it can be worth to redo the last test or d...   Dec 26 2010, 09:39
- - IgorC   I've tried several time with HD650 and HD447. ...   Dec 29 2010, 23:26
- - IgorC   Aparently CELT scales good with higher bitrates. ...   Dec 30 2010, 20:55
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (IgorC @ Dec 30 2010, 14:55) Aparen...   Dec 31 2010, 05:34
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Dec 31 2010, 01:34) If y...   Dec 31 2010, 06:00
- - IgorC   96 kbps: LC-AAC info: iTunes 9.0.0.70, 96 kbps, VB...   Dec 31 2010, 08:43
- - IgorC   Maybe CELT should compete not only with LD-AAC but...   Dec 31 2010, 18:44
- - rt87   I wonder if someone can do 48kbps tests comparing ...   Jan 1 2011, 01:59
- - IgorC   You can have an idea basing on results of 64 kbps ...   Jan 1 2011, 14:32
- - NullC   Anyone following along with the CELT technical dev...   Jan 26 2011, 02:09
- - jmvalin   OK, so we've been a bit quiet lately but worki...   Jan 28 2011, 00:36
- - IgorC   The artifacts of both files have very similar natu...   Jan 28 2011, 14:48
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (IgorC @ Jan 28 2011, 08:48) The ar...   Jan 29 2011, 06:24
- - IgorC   0.11.0 has been released. Good news. I wonder tha...   Feb 5 2011, 02:50
- - sauvage78   Personnaly I have some interest in it, but I need ...   Feb 5 2011, 04:54
|- - jmvalin   A few things I'd like to say here about CELT t...   Feb 5 2011, 05:20
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Feb 5 2011, 01:20) If bi...   Feb 5 2011, 18:39
|- - NullC   QUOTE (IgorC @ Feb 5 2011, 09:39) PS. It...   Feb 7 2011, 05:42
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (NullC @ Feb 6 2011, 23:42) I would...   Feb 7 2011, 05:53
|- - Ljubo44   QUOTE (NullC @ Feb 7 2011, 06:42) In any ...   May 23 2011, 20:40
- - sauvage78   One of the reason why I wait for a CLI encoder/dec...   Feb 5 2011, 06:20
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (sauvage78 @ Feb 5 2011, 02:20) Sor...   Feb 5 2011, 06:34
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (sauvage78 @ Feb 5 2011, 00:20) Sor...   Feb 5 2011, 12:53
- - [JAZ]   @sauvage: I don't understand you. First, you...   Feb 5 2011, 11:40
- - sauvage78   QUOTE you put doubts on how much it has improved s...   Feb 5 2011, 13:28
|- - jmvalin   If you want to see how far CELT has come, there...   Feb 5 2011, 15:18
- - list   any future improve towards 32kbps range?   Feb 6 2011, 19:25
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (list @ Feb 6 2011, 13:25) any futu...   Feb 7 2011, 04:00
- - list   I found some samples in which @64 kbps,48 khz , CE...   Feb 7 2011, 12:52
|- - jmvalin   QUOTE (list @ Feb 7 2011, 06:52) I found ...   Feb 7 2011, 13:03
|- - NullC   QUOTE (jmvalin @ Feb 7 2011, 04:03) QUOTE...   Feb 7 2011, 16:30
- - IgorC   I have a job to do until 10th of March. After that...   Feb 9 2011, 10:26
- - IgorC   Very short test on difficult eig sample Big surp...   Feb 13 2011, 21:09
- - IgorC   Single result for one random sample. Test of scala...   Feb 13 2011, 23:37
- - IgorC   The first sample that wasn't transparent at 19...   Feb 14 2011, 16:32
- - IgorC   CELT performs not enough well and worse than Vorbi...   Feb 14 2011, 22:21
- - IgorC   ~67 kbps test: CELT 0.11.2 (complexity 10, bitrate...   Mar 15 2011, 16:02
|- - NullC   QUOTE (IgorC @ Mar 15 2011, 07:02) ~67 kb...   Mar 16 2011, 13:27
- - LaserSokrates   Hey jmvalin, thank you and the team behind CELT fo...   Mar 16 2011, 14:27
- - Anakunda   Hello there, tried to compile celtenc with library...   Jun 2 2011, 14:35
|- - 2304p   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Jun 2 2011, 15:35) Hell...   Jun 3 2011, 07:16
- - Anakunda   Thanks much, that's work. I'd be intereste...   Jun 3 2011, 07:26
- - klonuo   You can get 0.11.2 also from here: http://listenin...   Jun 3 2011, 08:01
- - lvqcl   version 0.11.4 available at http://git.xiph.org/?...   Jun 3 2011, 10:43
|- - klonuo   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 3 2011, 11:43) version...   Jun 3 2011, 11:35
|- - 2304p   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 3 2011, 11:43) version...   Jun 4 2011, 15:09
|- - klonuo   QUOTE (2304p @ Jun 4 2011, 16:09) I have ...   Jun 4 2011, 19:37
|- - 2304p   QUOTE (klonuo @ Jun 4 2011, 20:37) QUOTE ...   Jun 4 2011, 22:42
- - Anakunda   celt.c violates the C standard several times in th...   Jun 3 2011, 11:45
|- - lvqcl   QUOTE (Anakunda @ Jun 3 2011, 14:45) celt...   Jun 3 2011, 11:57
|- - Anakunda   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 3 2011, 12:57) QUOTE (...   Jun 3 2011, 12:09
- - lvqcl   Either I cannot compile CELT 0.11.4 correctly, or ...   Jun 4 2011, 16:28
- - klonuo   run automation bash script provided and then as re...   Jun 4 2011, 23:03
- - 2304p   can you compile celt-0.11.4.tar.gz and upload as c...   Jun 5 2011, 12:46
- - Anakunda   I can compile but for me it doesnot encode anythin...   Jun 5 2011, 13:38
- - lvqcl   Celt 2011-04-21: (re-uploaded: compiled with CUS...   Jun 5 2011, 16:38
|- - 2304p   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 5 2011, 17:38) Celt 20...   Jun 5 2011, 17:59
- - darkbyte   Hi! First, thanks for this truly amazing code...   Nov 13 2011, 10:00
|- - NullC   QUOTE (darkbyte @ Nov 13 2011, 02:00) I...   Nov 14 2011, 09:23
- - darkbyte   QUOTE (NullC @ Nov 14 2011, 10:23) For fi...   Nov 14 2011, 17:57
- - Gainless   Can someone re-compile the celt version 0.11.4 to ...   Dec 12 2011, 22:37


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